Al Shaprton
Al Shaprton
Anybody else wonder why this guy even bothers?
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Tommy Martyn
- Mile High Club
- Posts: 887
- Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 8:01 am
- Location: a desk
On the likes of Nader, Sharpton, Lieberman (What was he thinking? Nobody likes him.) I think a few distinctions should be underlined. Or in the case of Sharpton's hair, dare I say highlighted.
Al Sharpton's presence forces the dems to at least acknowledge the importance of the black vote to their party. Yes of course we all know he is a showman and has aligned himself with a few dubious causes in the past. We know he can't win. Yet, I don't begrudge him the share of the podium as much as the others.
Nader is a different story. He did not seek a party nomination. He thought they were both awful and stood independently. More power to him. I wish he could have got the microphone at the last series of presidential debates. Many were upset at him for running. The thinking is that he cost Gore the election. Well I don't want to get into the Florida thing,so for the sake of this post let us pretend it was not a complete steal. When the votes were tallied a lot of democrats added the Nader totals onto the Gore totals and decided that this would have put Al Gore over the top. Failing to notice that when presented with a democratic choice these voters rejected Al Gore. They seemed very comfortable with a democracy where two parties go off and pick a leader and them come back to the people saying, "We have given you your choices and now you must decide." Last time I looked that's not in the democracy handbook.
Al Sharpton's presence forces the dems to at least acknowledge the importance of the black vote to their party. Yes of course we all know he is a showman and has aligned himself with a few dubious causes in the past. We know he can't win. Yet, I don't begrudge him the share of the podium as much as the others.
Nader is a different story. He did not seek a party nomination. He thought they were both awful and stood independently. More power to him. I wish he could have got the microphone at the last series of presidential debates. Many were upset at him for running. The thinking is that he cost Gore the election. Well I don't want to get into the Florida thing,so for the sake of this post let us pretend it was not a complete steal. When the votes were tallied a lot of democrats added the Nader totals onto the Gore totals and decided that this would have put Al Gore over the top. Failing to notice that when presented with a democratic choice these voters rejected Al Gore. They seemed very comfortable with a democracy where two parties go off and pick a leader and them come back to the people saying, "We have given you your choices and now you must decide." Last time I looked that's not in the democracy handbook.
Well all I can say is back when I took a world government class about 10 years ago, one of the things covered was how it's nearly impossible for a third party to make any significant gain in a two-party system. Surely a system open to other parties based upon their percentage of the vote (yes there's a word for it, no I don't know what it is nor do I want to look it up) is more democratic, but I think it's time to be realistic.
I think the thing to recognize here is in one of those many states where Sharpton lost, the polls showed many black voters going for people like Edwards and Kerry. So even the black dems seem to be falling in with this consensus I think among dems this time out that 'we're not going to do another Nader', and that's why Kerry has come out on top of Dean, whom everyone expected to place much better than he did. "Electability" is the issue. Dean was strong at saying "wow you really fucked up and here's our revenge". But people are looking beyond revenge now. They realize there are serious issues facing us and there isn't much time for revenge, nor electability in it.
I had said Kerry was "Bush Lite" but if I recall correctly, that was a term Dean had used early on. "We can't win with Bush Lite". But the fact may be, that's the only way we CAN win. And when I say "we" I just mean anyone who wants Bush out.
I don't blame Nader, I blame the time we lived in in 2000. We lived a little too "high on the hog" then. It's not just Bush that has been the dose of reality, it's been 9/11 itself and the subsequent economic downturn. In 2000, when everything was going so uncommonly good, it made sense to vote for Nader. It seemed anything could happen. You could be a milliionaire at 23 with a dot-com startup. Any economist will tell you that very low unemployment and low inflation AT THE SAME TIME is simply the best of both worlds and unheard of. Live and learn. I wonder why Nader doesn't attempt to join the democratic party. He may not be liked by the democratic establishment, but I wonder if he might not be more powerful that way. Maybe he needs a little Libra in his chart.
One editorial columnist I read had said they hoped Kucinich stayed in the race as long as possible despite knowing he wouldn't win, just so he could be there to bring up important issues, stoke the fires of debate as it were. I never really thought of it that way, but it makes sense. Do what you can, even if you can't win.
It's a full moon in Leo, folks, and I'm about 3 times more optimistic than I usually am. Plus it's Friday.
I think the thing to recognize here is in one of those many states where Sharpton lost, the polls showed many black voters going for people like Edwards and Kerry. So even the black dems seem to be falling in with this consensus I think among dems this time out that 'we're not going to do another Nader', and that's why Kerry has come out on top of Dean, whom everyone expected to place much better than he did. "Electability" is the issue. Dean was strong at saying "wow you really fucked up and here's our revenge". But people are looking beyond revenge now. They realize there are serious issues facing us and there isn't much time for revenge, nor electability in it.
I had said Kerry was "Bush Lite" but if I recall correctly, that was a term Dean had used early on. "We can't win with Bush Lite". But the fact may be, that's the only way we CAN win. And when I say "we" I just mean anyone who wants Bush out.
I don't blame Nader, I blame the time we lived in in 2000. We lived a little too "high on the hog" then. It's not just Bush that has been the dose of reality, it's been 9/11 itself and the subsequent economic downturn. In 2000, when everything was going so uncommonly good, it made sense to vote for Nader. It seemed anything could happen. You could be a milliionaire at 23 with a dot-com startup. Any economist will tell you that very low unemployment and low inflation AT THE SAME TIME is simply the best of both worlds and unheard of. Live and learn. I wonder why Nader doesn't attempt to join the democratic party. He may not be liked by the democratic establishment, but I wonder if he might not be more powerful that way. Maybe he needs a little Libra in his chart.
One editorial columnist I read had said they hoped Kucinich stayed in the race as long as possible despite knowing he wouldn't win, just so he could be there to bring up important issues, stoke the fires of debate as it were. I never really thought of it that way, but it makes sense. Do what you can, even if you can't win.
It's a full moon in Leo, folks, and I'm about 3 times more optimistic than I usually am. Plus it's Friday.
I think Al Sharpton looks a little too much like a member of The Dogg Pound to get elected President.
What the fuck every happened to Jesse?
Why is it in the USA you can napalm peasants and get a medal of honor... and if you commit adultery you are banned for life from politics forever?
We want Billy back!
What the fuck every happened to Jesse?
Why is it in the USA you can napalm peasants and get a medal of honor... and if you commit adultery you are banned for life from politics forever?
We want Billy back!
Well I went to the Caucus today. I didn't think I would since I still felt really undecided and I didn't think I'd be awake. But I happened to wake up in time and decided to go (it's only a few blocks) despite my considerable hangover. On the way there I started feeling really emotional. I kept getting this urge to cry when I first got there, but I didn't think it would be appropriate so I kept having to choke back tears. I just can't believe I live in a democratic society that would allow me to go and do this. It seems nothing short of miraculous that I should even be allowed to voice my dissent of such an awful leader. Christ people we are LUCKY, you know?
Anyway, so I got in with the Dean group. Most of the people in my precinct were Kerry supporters, although there was enough Kucinich for him to get a delegate too, just like we Dean people did. I considered switching to Kerry for a bit, then considered switching to Kucinich. In the end I just stuck with Dean and I was happy with that anyway. I thought it was kind of cool that none of the Dean group switched either. There was one person that switched from Kerry to Kucinich! What a leap! The thing was, none of us in the Dean group really were into it enough to try to convince the others to join us, although we did get a sales pitch from the Kerry and Kucinich people. Our main conclusion in my group was these are early stages and there's no reason not to try to keep people like Kucinich and Dean in the race for as long as possible, because they can bring up issues and basically make Kerry more responsive.
Did anyone else here go to the caucus in their area?
Anyway, so I got in with the Dean group. Most of the people in my precinct were Kerry supporters, although there was enough Kucinich for him to get a delegate too, just like we Dean people did. I considered switching to Kerry for a bit, then considered switching to Kucinich. In the end I just stuck with Dean and I was happy with that anyway. I thought it was kind of cool that none of the Dean group switched either. There was one person that switched from Kerry to Kucinich! What a leap! The thing was, none of us in the Dean group really were into it enough to try to convince the others to join us, although we did get a sales pitch from the Kerry and Kucinich people. Our main conclusion in my group was these are early stages and there's no reason not to try to keep people like Kucinich and Dean in the race for as long as possible, because they can bring up issues and basically make Kerry more responsive.
Did anyone else here go to the caucus in their area?