Bulletin Board of Bad Behavior

No not the booze.

The 20 year-old white hippy guy from California who joined the Taliban and was captured by American forces.

He got his inspiration to convert to fundamentalist Islam by reading The Autobiography of Malcolm X.

Golly, most people just buy a baseball cap.

What an inspiration to would be revolutionaries everywhere. Think we'll ever hear his side of the story?

Not in this lifetime...

Not in HIS lifetime.

In some way, I don't feel angry at this young man for any reason. He is apparently educated, as I've gotten from the newspapers, and he has found a cause to fight for, 'have you?'.... Because he has associated himself with the Taliban and not Al-queida, this man deserves some sort of oppurtunity to shed some light on his endeavor. Another fact being is that he was with the Taliban long before the terrorist attacks occurred so we can't say he supports terrorism.

We only know what we hear in the media. The Taliban have not been proven to have any sort of linkage to terrorism. Our government condems the Taliban because of their unwillingness to give up Al-Qeida. The Taliban only refuse to disclose the whereabouts of the Al-Qieda network. Dont get me wrong, I hate fundamentalist groups more than the average person, but i would fight if i was in this kid's position.

In Lindhs words, "The teachings of the Taliban captured my heart." When was the last time any of us non military americans could say we have found something to fight and die for? In our eyes, the Taliban are the enemy and the evil, and in the Taliban's eyes, we are the anti-christ. So who the fuck is right?

You're right Sloth, what an inspiration to would be revolutionaries.

[This message has been edited by Jack Chiefton (edited 12-05-2001).]

Thanks Jack.

Wow you get so much more news over here... This article is from the Times.


American Taleban prisoner filmed in CIA hands

BY HELEN STUDD

LIKE a captured wild animal, his dull eyes and unkempt features betray his resignation to his fate.
But this is no ordinary prisoner. Johnny Walker, the American Taleban fighter reviled by his countrymen as a traitor, is singled out from a crowd of bedraggled prisoners and dragged before two interrogators.

Captured on video by a local cameraman, the pair are CIA agents determined to bully him into submission. They have little idea that their prisoner is an American, but they have been tipped off that the man who cowers before them speaks English.

Wearing a black tunic and black trousers and with his elbows tied tightly behind his back, he is pushed to his knees and slumps on to a threadbare rug laid out in the Afghan dust.

One of them is Johnny “Mike� Spann, who will shortly be dead, killed just hours after the interview.

“If he wants to die, he's going to die here,� Spann's co-agent, known only as Dave, says.

Mr Walker is asked: “What do you speak? Irish, Pakistani?� Spann then squats in front of him, snaps his fingers in his face and says: “What's your name? Hey. Who brought you here? Wake up! Who brought you here? How did you get here? Hello?� They then make a point of withdrawing a few metres away to discuss his fate. They make sure they are still near enough for Mr Walker to hear them warn that he will die unless he talks.

“I explained to him what the deal is,� Spann is heard to say, in a scarcely veiled threat that could be seen to breach the Geneva Convention. He then turns to the prisoner and says: “It's up to you.�

Mr Walker's head remains limp on his chest, his hair in front of his eyes, as he ignores their barrage of threats. Their frustration at his sullen silence then begins to show.

One agent marches towards him and yanks his oily hair roughly away from his face. “Push your hair back,� he orders before manhandling him himself.

He remains clasping a handful of his locks, while the second takes out a camera and photographs their suspect. As he lets go, Mr Walker's head drops forward on to his chest again.

“The problem is, he's got to decide if he wants to live or die. If he wants to die, he's going to die here,� Spann's co-agent spits.

“Or he's going to f spend the rest of his short f life in prison. It's his decision, man. We can only help the guys who want to talk to us.

“We can only get the Red Cross to help so many guys. This guy got his chance. He got his chance.�

The pair then turn to the subject of September 11. “They killed other Muslims,� Spann says. “There were several hundred other Muslims killed in the bombing. Are you going to talk to us?� Their words still provoke no response.

After several more attempts to make him speak he is led back to rejoin a group of 80 other prisoners.

Mr Walker, a 20-year-old from California, was captured during a siege of Kala-i Jangi, the fort near Mazar-i Sharif. Within hours of the US traitor being returned to the lines of Taleban prisoners, however, it was Spann who was dead — the first American casualty of the action in Afghanistan. He was never to know who his prisoner was.

The CIA agent was trapped inside the fort as hundreds of Taleban killed guards and stormed an ammunition depot. Spann, 32, was killed on November 25, with 40 Northern Alliance troops and hundreds of captured Taleban, when prisoners emerged from other parts of the fortress to take part in the uprising.

The decision to interrogate dozens of Taleban on their own has been blamed for triggering the revolt that became the single bloodiest engagement since the Afghan war began. Shortly after the videotape was shot prisoners began rushing the guards and throwing grenades as fierce rioting broke out.

It was estimated that 800 foreign fighters — including Arabs, Pakistanis and Chechens — imprisoned in the fort turned suddenly on their outnumbered captors.

The prisoners were taken as the Northern Alliance, under cover of US airstrikes, finally overran the city of Konduz, the last Taleban stronghold in the north of the country.

At least two of the vehicles containing the captured Taleban fighters were not searched as they entered the fort, the first of a litany of mistakes by their jailers.

Mr Walker was discovered at the end of the siege, lying among the injured, when Northern Alliance soldiers flushed out the last of the Taleban from the basement.

He is currently incarcerated with other prisoners in Afghanistan. No decisions have been taken on his future, but his family have hired a lawyer.

Brought up a Roman Catholic, Mr Walker converted to Islam at 17 and left a year later to learn Arabic in the Persian Gulf states, before travelling to Pakistan and falling in with the Taleban.

Despite President Bush's description of him as “a poor fellow�, Mr Walker could face charges of treason under American law.

The video recording of the incident, however, suggests that Mr Walker has not told his captors everything he knows.

He said that he had only seen the two CIA agents, as opposed to being interviewed by them. Those arguing that he should receive stern punishment claim that he was involved in a riot which killed the CIA agent. If evidence emerged that Mr Walker had played a part in starting the riot after his interrogation, he would be likely to find the whole of America against him.

The tape is the first evidence that the CIA knew there was a Westerner among the prisoners and that it made threats to flush him out.

It is almost certain to raise questions about the language and style of the questioning and whether it contravened the Geneva Convention on the treatment of prisoners of war.

Well, the more I hear about Mr. Walker, the more he seems affiliated with terrorism, unless the media is making him out to sound like that.

What do I know, I'm just a young white male who is living the american "dream," which is starting to envelope me in a sarcastic world of hate and lies. Fuck, what a melting pot of crap.

Buddhism is the first step, well before self motivation and understanding. Zen is the real way, so all you drunks and drug coniseurs can stimulate the intoxicated mind towards realms of uncertainty. It's a great state of being.

You must first love yourself before you bullshit about mushy love and all that hopelessness. When you feel like you need to take a pill to be happy, then you have gone way way too far. We are in the 21st century, has everything been proven?? NO. Has everything been learned?? NO. Has everything been understood?? NO. Men write about love, because they experience it at the time, but soon change their tune after they alienate the "one" into a realm of hatred and despondency. Just look at Hemingway, Rimbaud, Goethe, Kerouac....They knew enough about love to self destruct.

For all you who have come to live this life for something worth dieing for, I salute you, and for all you who have found the love of your life, good luck, because it won't last, face it. Pessimism is the path to righteous understanding and self exploration. It makes men out of boys.

"As a philosophical system, Pessimism may be characterized as one of the many attempts to account for the presence of evil in the world (see EVIL). Leibniz held that "metaphysical" evil is necessarily involved in the creation of finite existences, and that the possibility of sin and consequent suffering is inalienable from the existence of free and rational creatures. The principle from which evil arises is thus made to be an integral part of the actual constitution of nature, though its development is regarded as contingent. With Schopenhauer, the originator of Pessimism as a system, as with those who have accepted his qualitative estimate of the value of existence, evil in the full sense is not merely, as with Leibniz, a possible development of certain fundamental principles of nature, but is itself the fundamental principle of the life of man. The world is essentially bad and "ought not to be".

Schopenhauer holds that all existence is constituted by the objectivization of will, which is the sole and universal reality. Will is blind and unconscious until it is objectivized in human beings, in whom it first attains to consciousness, or the power of representation (Idea; Vorstellung). Hence arises the constant suffering which is the normal condition of human life. The essential nature of will is to desire and strive; and the consciousness of this perpetual unfulfilled desire is pain. Pleasure is merely an exception in human experience, the rare and brief cessation of the striving of the will, the temporary absence of pain. This theory recalls that of Plato ("Phædo") who regarded pleasure as the mere absence of pain; and the conception of conscious life as essentially painful and undesirable is nearly identical with the Buddhist notion (quoted with approval by Schopenhauer) that conscious existence is fundamentally and necessarily evil. Hence, further, comes the ethical theory of Schopenhauer, which may be summed up as the necessity for "denying the Will to live". Peace can be attained only in proportion as man ceases to desire; thus the pain of life can be minimized only by an ascetic renunciation of the search after happiness, and can be abolished only by ceasing to live. On the same principle, the poet Leopardi extolled suicide; and Mainländer took his own life."


Is this what you believe, Jack, or am I misunderstanding your definition of pessimism?

To be perfectly honest with you Sarah, I don't think I understood more than 3 words out of your passage. If you can identify pessimism, because EVErYONE dwells on it sooner or later, hell it even kills some, and you can deal with pessimistic attitudes in a calm and rational way, then nothing can fucking bother you. There is no way around it. Doesn't evil ultimately outweigh the good in this world anyways?

Sarah, Jack, why is Shopenhauer's message of pessimism so enticing to us as humans?

Resignation. Resignation to life instead of conqeuring. I see it in myself and I hate it in myself.

What brings about this feeling of resignation?

Resentment. Like when I get upset that this girl doesn't want to fuck me or when I try to write a good story and post it and no one reads it. That builds resentment and that leads to feelings of resignation. Resignation leads to further feelings of worthlessness and further failures and further resentment.

I can't praise resentment. All I can do is try harder and get stronger and get higher and climb out of the swamp of reality.

I agree with Scopenhauer that life for most people might not be worth living, and I agree that something my own life does not feel important, but sometimes is does and it is during those precise moments when I eat really good ice cream or receive or emote love that the world shines. The world cannot be good or evil, it can just be the world.

I do not believe that life is a long suffering, but it certainly feels like it!

Why?

Here is a little about what Nietsche said about Schopenhauer, resignation, and resentment...

I judge a philosopher by whether he is able to serve as an example....[Schopenhauer's] greatness is the fact that he faces the picture of life as a whole in order to interpret it as a whole.... Schopenhauer's philosophy should be interpreted ... by the individual ... in order to gain insight into his own misery, needs and limitations and to know the antidotes and consolations; namely, sacrifice of the ego, submission to the noblest intentions, and above all, justice and mercy. He teaches us how to distinguish between real and apparent advancements of human happiness, how neither becoming rich, nor being respected, nor being learned can raise the individual above his disgust as the valuelessness of his existence, and how the struggle for all these good things is given meaning only by a high and transfiguring goal: to win power in order to come to the help of nature, and to correct her foolishness and clumsiness a little — at first, admittedly, solely for oneself, but eventually for everybody.... This is a struggle which in its deepest and innermost nature leads to resignation.

I hate our language it is so ambiguous and subjective. Pessimism, evil, good,. . .words!(I don't really hate the language, only when it frustrates me)

So I see the world as a Matisse -- not a Picasso:
This is Matisse: (In somebody else's words)
The conflicts and anguish that his struggle gave rise to made it all the more imperative for Matisse to pursue the goal he had set for himself: to find a mode of pictorial expression that would enable him to impose some kind of order on the chaos in his own psyche. He once stunned a visitor by remarking that what drove him to take up his brush was the impulse to strangle someone. Yet the absence of violent or ugly feeling in the works themselves shows just how far he was from being the kind of painter--all too familiar in the history of 20th-century art--who gives his brush free rein to declare his state of mind, whatever it may be.

What Matisse sought was not merely an expression of his personality--though he would have been the first to say his art was that--but an aesthetic ideal: the harmony of a "restful surface." (Restful for the spirit, that is, not for the eye, which can almost never rest when looking at a Matisse.)

In short, his aim was not to display his psychic condition but rather to heal it. And in seeking to heal himself, he produced pictures that had, and continue to have, the same restorative effect on others.

PICTURES CREATED IN A TIME OF TURMOIL THAT DO NOT PERPETUATE IT, NOR IGNORE IT, BUT CURE IT, AT LEAST IN ONE MAN.
NOW HERE'S THE PICASSO HALF, NOT WRITTEN BY ME EITHER, BUT EQUALLY EFFECTIVE IN EXPLAINING WHAT I FEEL:

Guernica was hung in the Spanish Pavilion of the Paris International Exposition of 1937. The painting does not portray the event; rather, Picasso expressed his outrage by employing such imagery as the bull, the dying horse, a fallen warrior, a mother and dead child, a woman trapped in a burning building, another rushing into the scene, and a figure leaning from a window and holding out a lamp. Despite the complexity of its symbolism, and the impossibility of definitive interpretation, Guernica makes an overwhelming impact in its portrayal of the horrors of war.

World War II and After

Picasso's palette grew somber with the onset of World War II, and death is the subject of numerous works, such as Still Life with Steer's Skull and The Charnel House

I like Matisse's paintings -- I don't like Picasso's, if I knew nothing of them as people I would still feel that way. That's my fuzzy philosophy. And you're right, Jack, Picasso acheived much greater fame than did Matisse. So your point is proved -- Guernica is the 20th century painting. Seems a lot of people prefer a reminder of the horrors of war to the beauty of the naked female form. Wow!

Amen to the world is just the world.
I think this is the world's longest post, and if you read it, amen to you too.

That is not the world's longest post although I had to read it twice to digest it which is fine. I am not interested in literary happy meals.

Okay boys and girls the subject of this thread is still "mispeled Johny Walker", whose real name is John Walker Lindh. Interesting enough, he was named after Beatle John Lennon and I think he might have been possessed by him too, because he certainly looks and acts like him. If he goes to jail I think that's a shame. His punishment ouught be banishment from the US. Not really a punishment, but it suits the 'crime' I think. Here is a photo of the man. He is currently being held in an Afghanistan shipping container 10 feet high, 20 feet wide and 10 feet deep, set on the desert floor, surrounded by huge rolls of barbed wire and watched over by a guard tower.




Art History Lesson
------------------

Now to help those non art historians among us to differentiate between Picasso and Matisse so they can make up their own minds, we have Matisse's les baigneuses de Derain.



In the 1930's, while Hitler was preparing to kick the pate out of France, Picasso was studying Matisse and was so influenced by his work that he drank a couple bottles of port and invented cubism with this redition of the Matisse work called demoiselles d'Avignon.



You make the call!

What moves you the most?

A. Muslim Fundamentalist John Walker
B. Fauvist Matisse
C. Cubist Picasso

I choose them is order of appearance. Sorry to the artists, but John Walker Lindh is on my mind. I think they should let him out of his gasoline tank and let him be interviewed by a competent journalist.

-ooh

A. Fauvist Matisse

You're so cool, and I'll stop being completely off of the thread's subject.

John Walker Lindh Has Been Charged With Conspiracy to Kill U.S. Nationals Abroad.

I have to agree to that this is probably a very serious crime. Its like killing a bird after it has spent its whole life in a cage and has just been released. You know, tasted freedom from cable television for the first time.

And I am an american sloth living abroad. But Would John Walker have killed me? No. Probaby not. Why? I am not 100% certain, but maybe because

I WAS NOT IN AFGHANISTAN WITH 100 BILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF KILLING MACHINES TRYING TO TAKE OVER THE FUCKING COUNTRY.

Just a guess though mind you.

John Ashcroft, our beloved Secretary os State said, "Youth is not absolution for treachery, and personal self-discovery is not an excuse to take up arms against one's country. Misdirected Americans cannot seek direction in murderous ideologies and expect to avoid the consequences,"

Donald Rumsfield added, "Defending one's country is only noble if you are not defending it against people that used to be from your own country. In other words, don't emigrate to another country and then expect to defend yourself against the US or that's your motherfucking ass."

Ooh the Sloth says, "The proper punishment in this case is banishment from the US. If Walker is found to return to US soil, he should be imprisoned for life. Otherwise, he should face the same fate as they other captured Al Qaida soldiers. Also let's not forget that this guy is only like 20 years old and that our government is a bunch of lowlife dickheads.

I am not quick to condemn John Walker, I don't know what his situation was and his story is something I'd wish to here. However, FUCK THE TALIBAN. They ARE associated with terrorism because the fucking CONDONED IT AND HARBORED IT KNOWINGLY AND WILLFULLY! Some might say I have a bias opinion (My cousin was on flight 11, the first plane to hit the towers), but how fucking retarded do you have to be. This is not against John Walker, but this mainly in response to the idiotic remark that the Taliban was not associated with terrorism. I don't agree with our internation policies, either. But let's not forget, those people were innocent as far as what they could do. Shit, I'm not even that educated as to what all our policies are, but I damn well know that it shouldn't mean I deserve to die for it. It's a very tough situation, but that's 4000 people who had families, dogs, hobbies. And they just got up that morning cuz they were trying to make it in this world. Did you know a lot of them just melted for a couple seconds before losing consciousness? That's a way to die, man. Did you see the people so desperate to live, that they jumped out of the fucking windows? That was a story from a book of horror, and anybody, as far as I'm concerned, that supports anything like that deserves to be wiped away. That's an insult to everybody that breathes.

-Koda Kangus

Yeah I like the USA better than Afghanistan as well. I've never actually been to Afghanistan. But on TV and the newspapers they say its really bad. Sso I guess we have the right to blow it up. The TV people wouldn't lie to us. It might hurt the ratings.

I am sorry about your brother on Flight 11. If what you are saying is true that must really suck. If someone killed my brother I would want to blow up their country and make all the peasants starve as well. I hate peasants from countries that kill my brother.

-ooh

But man, proud man,
Dressed in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assured,
His glassy essence, like an angry ape,
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep; who, with our spleens,
Would all themselves laugh mortal.
--Measure for Measure, II:2