"Conducting" the war

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marky
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"Conducting" the war

Post by marky »

Stared at an AP story on the front page regarding Bush asking a whole arseload of money out of Congress for "conducting the war" - not that Bush said that, I don't mean that - it was the way the author of the piece put it - "conducting the war". I was just incredulous. Conducting the war? Have we got to the point now that we are conducting wars? For Christ's sake you don't conduct wars you fight them. You conduct music, you don't conduct wars.

I mean is that what we are doing? We're over there conducting a war? Conducting?

Okay I've obviously hammered the point home, now but really...even without the musical connotations, that is just piss poor journalism, I think.
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Post by marky »

It just sounds so fucking crazy. People sat round a table, right, deciding that they are going appropriate tens of billions of dollars and more for the sake of "conducting a war". I mean what in the living fuck?
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Post by marky »

Okay for real I'm not even drunk right now.

I just knew that one day his hubris would catch up with him. I knew that. And it is, but it's all so slow motion, like waiting for a car to crash. How do we know the weather won't get us before the terrorists do? This has really begun to occur to me.

They say he's what...40 percent in the polls now...November elections seem so far away. I'll have long since graduated by then.

But the optimist in me says maybe all the stupid people in America can learn. Is it possible? That a single stupid person in America can learn anything? When Vietnam was only what, 30 years ago?

You folks who watch TV - is anyone talking about Vietnam these days?

Also there's no reason why anyone needs to tell me that the Seahawks are playing the super bowl because I have heard and seen more than my share about it. If it makes people happy, fine, maybe Seattle doesn't need another bad thing to happen on top of all the record breaking amounts of rain we are suffering this winter. Which means global warming etc etc etc.
marky
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Post by marky »

Okay for real I'm not even drunk right now.

I just knew that one day his hubris would catch up with him. I knew that. And it is, but it's all so slow motion, like waiting for a car to crash. How do we know the weather won't get us before the terrorists do? This has really begun to occur to me.

They say he's what...40 percent in the polls now...November elections seem so far away. I'll have long since graduated by then.

But the optimist in me says maybe all the stupid people in America can learn. Is it possible? That a single stupid person in America can learn anything? When Vietnam was only what, 30 years ago?

You folks who watch TV - is anyone talking about Vietnam these days?

Also there's no reason why anyone needs to tell me that the Seahawks are playing the super bowl because I have heard and seen more than my share about it. If it makes people happy, fine, maybe Seattle doesn't need another bad thing to happen on top of all the record breaking amounts of rain we are suffering this winter. Which means global warming the Bush will burn in hell etc etc etc.

I know I am bitching and bringing the whole thing down and I need to cheer up but the wind is so strong tonight, it frightens me, really it does.
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a bunch of crap, if you're bored

Post by megapulse »

If you'd like to try to find the truth, here are a butt load of articles I've looked at recently concerning threat of war with Iran, probably what a large chunk of what we're planning on conducting, Mark.

Martino, Germany has seemed opposed to this. What do you know?

If anybody wants to try to figure out why we're looking at Iran?

Here are two reports from today's news:

Report One:
VIENNA, Austria - The U.N. nuclear watchdog on Saturday reported Iran to the
U.N. Security Council in a resolution expressing concern Tehran's nuclear program may not be "exclusively for peaceful purposes." Iran said it would retaliate immediately.



The landmark decision by the International Atomic Energy Agency's 35-nation board sets the stage for future action by the top U.N. body, which has the authority to impose economic and political sanctions.
Still, any such moves were weeks if not months away. Two permanent council members, Russia and China, agreed to referral only on condition the council take no action before March.
Twenty-seven nations supported the resolution, which was sponsored by three European powers — Britain, France and Germany — and backed by the United States.
Cuba, Syria and Venezuela were the only nations to vote against it.

Report 2:
MUNICH, Germany - Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld urged America's allies to increase their military spending to prevent the rise of a "global extremist Islamic empire."



He also urged the world to work for a "diplomatic solution" to halt
Iran's nuclear program.
"The Iranian regime is today the world's leading state sponsor of terrorism," he said in prepared remarks. "The world does not want, and must work together to prevent, a nuclear Iran."
Rumsfeld was in Munich to address a defense conference focused on the relationship between America and its European allies.

Why I would listen to Venezuela and Hugo Chavez:

Venezuela gives US cheap oil deal


Officials from Venezuela and Massachusetts have signed a deal to provide cheap heating oil to low-income homes in the US state.
The fuel will be sold at about 40% below market prices to thousands of homes over the winter months.
Local congressman William Delahunt described the deal as "an expression of humanitarianism at its very best".
Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez is one of the Bush administration's biggest adversaries in Latin America.
He first announced his plan to provide cheap heating oil directly to lower-income Americans while visiting Cuba in August.
'About people'
The deal involves shipping some 45m litres of heating oil from Venezuela to Massachusetts at a discounted rate via Citgo Petroleum, a US-based subsidiary of the Venezuelan state-owned oil company.
Why I think we may be going after Iran, energy (nuclear in this case) and economic sustainability, the same reason :

Number One and Two reasons, number one and two un allies who already want that as their energy /economic staples -- everybody knows about france, no need to discuss their nuclear energy, but the uk I'm not so sure how many people know about that ally:

UK energy review to consider nuclear stations

29 November 2005 13:31
The British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, has announced an energy review which will consider whether to build a new generation of nuclear power stations across Britain.

In a speech to the Confederation of British Industry this morning, Mr Blair said rising energy prices and climate change had produced a new urgency in the nuclear debate.

Mr Blair's speech had to be delayed when Greenpeace protesters scaled the rafters in the conference centre and the podium had to be moved to a side room

The British government's energy review will report next summer and will look in detail at the development of a new generation of nuclear power stations.

Ministers insist that the British government is still neutral on the nuclear issue.

However, many at Westminster now believe that Mr Blair has been convinced that nuclear power is the only way to combat climate change and achieve reductions in carbon dioxide emissions.

Britain's North Sea gas supplies are running out fast at a time when energy prices are soaring.

Proponents of nuclear power say wind, solar and wave power, the so-called renewable energy sources, will not be sufficient to supply Britain's energy needs when the last of the current generation of nuclear power stations come to the end of their working life in under 20 years.

Iran's story
Iran Says It Won't Stop Uranium Conversion

By ALI AKBAR DAREINI, Associated Press Writer
Sun Aug 14, 1:36 PM ET

TEHRAN, Iran - Iran will never again suspend conversion of uranium ore, but it is willing to pursue talks with the European Union about its uranium enrichment program, Tehran officials said Sunday.


A spokesman also notched up the rhetorical battle with Washington, declaring that Iranians have the means to defend themselves should President Bush act on his warning that military force could be a final option if Iran doesn't halt its nuclear program.

The comments came as Iran's new president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, nominated hard-liners for all his key ministries, signaling the likelihood of an intensified confrontation with the United States and Europe over the issue.

Iran already rejected Thursday's resolution from the U.N. nuclear agency urging it to halt the conversion of uranium into gas at its atomic plant in Isfahan. Conversion is a step before enrichment, which produces material usable for both energy-producing reactor fuel and atomic bombs.

After the International Atomic Energy Agency's board issued its appeal, diplomats familiar with the proceedings said Iran was being given until Sept. 3 to halt uranium conversion or risk being referred to the U.N. Security Council for consideration of sanctions.

Washington and others have long suspected Iran's nuclear program is intended to develop weapons, and European governments grew concerned after it was revealed the Iranians had kept parts of its atomic operations hidden from U.N. inspectors.

Iran denies it is working on nuclear arms, saying the program's sole purpose is to generate electricity. It insists it has a sovereign right under the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty to convert uranium at Isfahan and do enrichment at its plant in Natanz for peaceful activities.

"The Isfahan issue is over. What is left on the table for discussion is Natanz," Mohammad Saeedi, deputy head of the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran, told state television.

"We definitely have plans for Natanz in the near future," he added, although he did not give a time frame.

The Foreign Ministry's spokesman, Hamid Reza Asefi, also said Iran would not stop uranium conversion.

"Work in Isfahan will not be suspended again for confidence building," he said, referring to the suspension of nuclear activities that Iran imposed last year to allow negotiations with the European Union to proceed in a good atmosphere.

Asefi said at a news conference that Iran had no set plans for resuming uranium enrichment in Natanz. "Europe's behavior will heavily influence the decision," he said.

Iran's chief delegate to the IAEA, Sirus Nasseri, indicated Thursday that any talks about enrichment would be about setting safeguards for operations at the Natanz facility to reassure those with suspicions but not about closing the plant.

The EU, lead by Britain, Germany and France, has been trying to persuade Iran to abandon its enrichment program in return for a supply of nuclear fuel to power reactors and other economic help.

Iran rejected the offer earlier this month, objecting to the Europeans' insistence it give up its uranium conversion and enrichment programs. The IAEA then issued its warning.

On Friday, Bush said on Israeli television that efforts to shut down Iran's atomic program should rely on diplomacy, but he also had a veiled warning for the Tehran regime.

If diplomacy fails "all options are on the table," he said. "The use of force is the last option for any president. You know, we've used force in the recent past to secure our country."

Asefi characterized the comment as part of Washington's psychological war against Iran and said Iran had its own warning about any U.S. attack.

"I think Bush should know that our options are more numerous than the U.S. options," Asefi said. "If the United States makes such a big mistake, then Iran will definitely have more choices to defend itself."

He offered no specifics.

German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said he hoped Iran would change its mind about its nuclear program, but added that he opposed any threats of military force.

"I see a military option a high-grade danger," Schroeder said in an interview published Sunday by the Bild am Sonntag newspaper. "Therefore I can certainly rule out that a German government under my leadership would take part in one."

He said Iran should be allowed to use nuclear energy for peaceful purposes, "but we must ensure that Iran is not put in the position to be able to manufacture atomic weapons."
marky
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Post by marky »

I just want to clarify that the only reason I fucking posted all that shit twice was because my internet connection keeps fucking up
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Post by megapulse »

about vietnam, really i guess it started with Kennedy and the wars to end communism and spread democracy

replace the words russia, viet nam, etc and communism with islamic country x and terrorism and there you have it.

so i mean, the world leaders are going to have a war and spend a lot of the tax payers money on it, instead of exploring peace.

and this is the way it has been and this is the way it will be. and that's pretty much all there is to it. sometimes i'll pull my head out of the sand long enough to look at which war / conflict whatever you want to call bombing and killing folks, especially indigeneous ones for power, and which choice propaganda words are being used to sell it -- right now for those who'd like to talk properly about it, it's iran, it's about nuclear energy and iran is now being called the largest terrorists state supporter or something

on the flip side, i did read an encouraging article around christmas time stating that the world is actually more peaceful today than in 80's -- it was interesting but i don't think i saved it
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Post by marky »

No. I will not read all that fucking crap. I remember in August of whatever year that was 2001? when bush started saying we should go to war with Iraq or however it was put into words, you know what I mean he was planning to do that, it hadn't been done yet. and I just rolled my eyes, at how ridiculous a notion it was, to turn it all into Saddam Hussein this terrorist threat. And I think I'm having Deja Vu with Iran and I refuse I repeat I refuse to believe it.

I believe the American people can learn. I believe that proud man will be humbled. I believe that in November IT IS NOT GOING TO FLY.
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Post by marky »

Let the gas prices go through the roof! Let the economy go to shit I don't care whatever it takes to get him out out out out out.
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Post by marky »

Oh god I'm sorry Sarah, I posted that before your previous post came up. I was responding to the large post. Which I can't bring myself to read.
marky
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Post by marky »

Okay but check this shit out I thought this was so fucking funny - in the Stranger - Last Days - he quotes Bush about how Hamas won the elections in Palestine right? And Bush said something like you know, we're not going to recognize that government blah blah... (wait for the punchline)

"we're interested in peace"

hahahahahahahaha

I laughed out loud on the bus when I read that. It was so fucking funny
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Post by marky »

Sorry if I came across like a loudmouth on this thread. I'm a bit calmer now, though the wind is still threatening to...do whatever. I've been awake for 24 hours too. Well...23.

Earlier I was thinking I wish I could drop acid and then listen to the stories your kids tell, Sarah. The lights are flickering again I'm afraid they're going to go out.
marky
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Post by marky »

Okay I think I'm going to go now. Turn off the electricity.
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Post by megapulse »

mark, i am sorry. it is not reality though, that shit on the news, bush, presidents, you know, sometimes it makes me so angry and then sometimes i'm like, they are not going to have that kind of control over me, fuck em. . . i am mine. and i'll stop reading the news.

i guess that's why i said that the other day about my kids. i mean my reality is what i experience with my kids at school. and other stuff. the kids are probably the height of it. . . because they are not jaded and old. they are so awesome. i mean worth sticking up for, worth being "the adult" for . . . you know?

dropping acid and listening to my kids, you'd better watch out, you might end up a weirdo. you don't have to drop acid to listen to the kids and get all weird with them though. kids are just weird. let me tell you a story.

there are these three girls, they are so funny, their friendship is so cool to me. one is your typical cheerleader, one's your typical stoner, and one's your typical goth, get the three of them together and there is absolutely nothing typical about them, the other day, the goth girl was wearing a pink tee shirt, and the cheerleader was like, doesn't she look cute in pink, i'm buying some black, and then we're going to hot topic and really confusing people. then a black girl who's friends with them (who i took to her first classical concert for christmas :) picks up the goth and carries her to her seat -- i mean kids are the coolest weirdest things on earth, especially 8th graders. i wish everyone got to work with them

and they absolutely love recycling. it was one of those strange flukes, like you try something and are like, maybe they'll dig it, and then they end up loving it and just running with the idea.

mine our now recycling their scrap paper at school and then we use it for their scratch paper during tutoring. kids thought of this!

why have you been up for twenty four hours. sleep is your happy drug buddy, seratonin ~ i'm sorry to dump the long crap post on you, i won't again.
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Post by marky »

Nah, everything is fine Sarah as long as you don't hold any drunken pub talk I might have spouted on any given night against me.

I went to the graveyard near my house (read: cemetary) and I sat on the ground and started crying. Before that I found this gravestone near where some trees had been cut down...it had all these pretty musical notes on it even this really neat thing where these two notes that you normally see were upside down on the other side, so it was perfectly symmetrical. And it was someone name Dorothy Haggerty who died on Sept. 12, 2005 and she shared her gravestone with a relative named Leland, who's only date on the stone was a just a year prior to her own birth, and there were these gorgeous flowing musical staffs/notes between them. And I knelt on the ground and I touched the cold stone in the wind, and I felt it, I felt something very deep. And I stayed there for a long time and stared at the beautiful musical notes between them.

I only started crying much later on, but it really felt great.
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