Here's a Poll Question:
Would you rather join the Marines or get wined and dined and fucked up the ass by Bernard Kerik?
My God What Have We Done
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sara
No, Matt, and Tommy this goes for you too -- I don't think you're Clintonists or really anything other than capitalists -- which I am not -- so there you go. If I'm wrong about that then so be it, but from your sports posts it sure looks like it's all about the Benjamins with you two. SO I really have nothing else I can contribute here, other than I think, you, Tommy, should rethink the moralistic route of telling anyone that the United States involvement with anything is "the right thing to do" -- I believe that thirteen year olds have learned to use more concrete arguments than that.
When the US was attacked a few years ago, I read somewhere that Haliburton had attempted to run a pipeline through the poppy fields; that they'd had a deal with the Taliban (and Jeez, I could almost swear that I read it here) and then they pulled out, afterwards Osama was not happy with the capitalists and decided, well who knows -- but that's what I read. I under no circumstances support the Taliban, nor do I support the US being involved with another country for a pipeline so that more rich people can make more money, while our own poor do not have the money to buy toilet paper (since Slothers is so concerned with that) to wipe their own asses. Anyway that could be a conspiracy theory -- time will or won't tell, but it makes a lot of sense to me considering some other things I've read.
When the US was attacked a few years ago, I read somewhere that Haliburton had attempted to run a pipeline through the poppy fields; that they'd had a deal with the Taliban (and Jeez, I could almost swear that I read it here) and then they pulled out, afterwards Osama was not happy with the capitalists and decided, well who knows -- but that's what I read. I under no circumstances support the Taliban, nor do I support the US being involved with another country for a pipeline so that more rich people can make more money, while our own poor do not have the money to buy toilet paper (since Slothers is so concerned with that) to wipe their own asses. Anyway that could be a conspiracy theory -- time will or won't tell, but it makes a lot of sense to me considering some other things I've read.
Wow Sara, them's harsh words.
Here's the gasline scandal in a nutshell....
"During the Soviets' decade-long occupation of Afghanistan, Moscow estimated Afghanistan's proven and probable natural gas reserves at around five trillion cubic feet. In the mid-1970s, production reached 275 million cubic feet per day.
But Afghanistan's significance to the balance of energy and power in Central Asia stems from its geographical position as a potential transit route for oil and natural gas exports from Central Asia to the Arabian Sea.
In January 1998, an agreement was signed between Pakistan, Turkmenistan, and the Taliban to arrange funding for a proposed 890-mile, US$2 billion natural gas pipeline project. The proposed pipeline would have transported natural gas from Turkmenistan's Dauletabad natural gas field to Pakistan, and most likely would have run from Dauletabad south to the Afghan border, through Herat and Kandahar in Afghanistan, to Quetta, Pakistan. The line would then have linked with Pakistan's natural gas grid at Sui. U.S. oil company Unocal was to finance the bulk of the project. As it happened, Unocal pulled-out of the deal, citing political instability in Afghanistan.
In addition to the gas pipeline, Unocal also had considered building a 1,000-mile oil pipeline that would link Chardzou, Turkmenistan with Pakistan's Arabian Sea coast via Afghanistan"
I WILL LEAVE THE REST TO YOUR IMAGINATION. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU CONSIDER THAT DICK AND GEORGE ARE OIL PEOPLE AND ALL THEIR FAMILY AND FRIENDS ARE OIL PEOPLE.
This is starting to get like Dune and the Spice Wars.
Here's the gasline scandal in a nutshell....
"During the Soviets' decade-long occupation of Afghanistan, Moscow estimated Afghanistan's proven and probable natural gas reserves at around five trillion cubic feet. In the mid-1970s, production reached 275 million cubic feet per day.
But Afghanistan's significance to the balance of energy and power in Central Asia stems from its geographical position as a potential transit route for oil and natural gas exports from Central Asia to the Arabian Sea.
In January 1998, an agreement was signed between Pakistan, Turkmenistan, and the Taliban to arrange funding for a proposed 890-mile, US$2 billion natural gas pipeline project. The proposed pipeline would have transported natural gas from Turkmenistan's Dauletabad natural gas field to Pakistan, and most likely would have run from Dauletabad south to the Afghan border, through Herat and Kandahar in Afghanistan, to Quetta, Pakistan. The line would then have linked with Pakistan's natural gas grid at Sui. U.S. oil company Unocal was to finance the bulk of the project. As it happened, Unocal pulled-out of the deal, citing political instability in Afghanistan.
In addition to the gas pipeline, Unocal also had considered building a 1,000-mile oil pipeline that would link Chardzou, Turkmenistan with Pakistan's Arabian Sea coast via Afghanistan"
I WILL LEAVE THE REST TO YOUR IMAGINATION. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU CONSIDER THAT DICK AND GEORGE ARE OIL PEOPLE AND ALL THEIR FAMILY AND FRIENDS ARE OIL PEOPLE.
This is starting to get like Dune and the Spice Wars.
I just slothed myself
This thread is classic Sloth.
There is something political somewhere in the thread...but I was too busy laughing to notice.
The slothers is on a roll!
There is something political somewhere in the thread...but I was too busy laughing to notice.
The slothers is on a roll!
If I'm making any sense, then I haven't made myself clear.
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mccutcheon
- New York Scribbler
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- Contact:
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Tommy Martyn
- Mile High Club
- Posts: 887
- Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 8:01 am
- Location: a desk
Right then.
Briefly. When I post in sports I have a few general themes.
1) I am excited by the fact that drug cheats are less likely to be successful or will have to put an awful lot more time, effort and money into being successful.
2) I love rugby league. Which is the ultimate working class game. Did you know that Vichy (Sp?) France outlawed the game? How cool is that?
3) Remind (the old drunken, not spiffy new) McC to watch soccer when it is on live
4) Talk up the Bengals and Cambridge University. (Who sadly lost to arch rivals Oxford yesterday - as if you cared)
Recently I posted about how professional football. That is, football for those who didn't or couldn't afford to go to college, is so expensive. I even tried to work out how long you would have to work at min wage to get your family to a game. Boring, perhaps, but hardly the kind of thing to get Adam Smith excited.
I also mentioned that Mrs Tommy might meet Troy Aikman. (A work function) ( I wanted to find out if one of the pax knew a big Dallas fan - with a view to giving them a signed ball.) Can you imagine how excited some little texan would be with that.
It is true that I am going to watch the Bengals in the company of big Anthony Munoz, in one of the fancy skyboxes. I am going as a guest of the old man. He was invited for free because amongst other things he has handled the bond Levy for the schools for mentally retarded children in Cincinnati. He handles the finances on the board of Childrens hospital and he has handled finances for the salvation army. He does all these things for free. A fucking football ticket is a small reward - which he didn't ask for but when offered asked if he could bring me as well, which is typical of the man.
I'm fucking lost as to how this is all about the money.
Now even a socialist is a capitalist of a stripe. Have you been at the Gramsci? What is your alternative? Bartering or that bonkers thing that parades in Havana or Pyong Yang.
Take as much space as you can and please go into as much detail as possible. I used to spend a lot of time thinking about this stuff. I love talking about it.
Briefly. When I post in sports I have a few general themes.
1) I am excited by the fact that drug cheats are less likely to be successful or will have to put an awful lot more time, effort and money into being successful.
2) I love rugby league. Which is the ultimate working class game. Did you know that Vichy (Sp?) France outlawed the game? How cool is that?
3) Remind (the old drunken, not spiffy new) McC to watch soccer when it is on live
4) Talk up the Bengals and Cambridge University. (Who sadly lost to arch rivals Oxford yesterday - as if you cared)
Recently I posted about how professional football. That is, football for those who didn't or couldn't afford to go to college, is so expensive. I even tried to work out how long you would have to work at min wage to get your family to a game. Boring, perhaps, but hardly the kind of thing to get Adam Smith excited.
I also mentioned that Mrs Tommy might meet Troy Aikman. (A work function) ( I wanted to find out if one of the pax knew a big Dallas fan - with a view to giving them a signed ball.) Can you imagine how excited some little texan would be with that.
It is true that I am going to watch the Bengals in the company of big Anthony Munoz, in one of the fancy skyboxes. I am going as a guest of the old man. He was invited for free because amongst other things he has handled the bond Levy for the schools for mentally retarded children in Cincinnati. He handles the finances on the board of Childrens hospital and he has handled finances for the salvation army. He does all these things for free. A fucking football ticket is a small reward - which he didn't ask for but when offered asked if he could bring me as well, which is typical of the man.
I'm fucking lost as to how this is all about the money.
Now even a socialist is a capitalist of a stripe. Have you been at the Gramsci? What is your alternative? Bartering or that bonkers thing that parades in Havana or Pyong Yang.
Take as much space as you can and please go into as much detail as possible. I used to spend a lot of time thinking about this stuff. I love talking about it.
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Tommy Martyn
- Mile High Club
- Posts: 887
- Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 8:01 am
- Location: a desk
And another thing. Under any circumstances, at any time, the only good Taliban is a dead Taliban. If the work on the human genome reveals that Taliban like folks pass on their behaviour patterns through strands of demented DNA then I would also be in favour of stamping on the balls of their offspring. Killing them is always the right thing to do. This is not an argument about moral relativism. I repeat again. Show me one instance of where the thinking or, more importantly, the behaviour of the Taliban has been a positive force.
The Taliban want me dead. Same goes for my wife and kids. Same goes for all my friends. Given the right funds and tools they will pursue these ends. There is no compromise. You are correct in saying I thought like this by the age of thirteen. How old will you be when you understand?
The Taliban want me dead. Same goes for my wife and kids. Same goes for all my friends. Given the right funds and tools they will pursue these ends. There is no compromise. You are correct in saying I thought like this by the age of thirteen. How old will you be when you understand?
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TragicPixie
- Mile High Club
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- Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:19 am
- Location: St. Louis, MO
- Contact:
yeah well I actually am a Clintonist ... a Clintonist with socialist leanings. But well there you go. As far as American politics go at the moment, I really don't care because we're going to hell in a handbasket. I just choose to focus on women's issues.
Lie to me, it takes less time to drink you pretty.
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sara
This morning I was angry when I said I had nothing left to contribute. And I should not speak when I am angry. I have a real soft spot for the uniformed, alternately known as Americans, afterall I'm one of them, but I'm learning.
thank you sloth for making me proud -- here it is out of the nutshell:
Laying pipe, making money, and opium -- a real paxacidus mix:
In a book entitled Bin Laden: The Forbidden Truth Guillaume Dasquie explains that both the Bush and Clinton administrations negotiated with Taliban in order to construct a pipeline. The al-Qaida were monitoring these negations as explained in a memo that was written by Mohammed Atef.
In 2001, the U.S. threatened the Taliban when they would not comply with the wishes of the government, and in November of that year it is believed that Atef was killed.
www.salon.com/news/feature/2002/06/05/m ... _np.html?x
What is interesting to me is the Halliburton / Enron connection. A division of Halliburton known as KBR handles logistics for the DoD; it also “provides a wide range of engineering, construction, operations, and maintenance, logistics and project management services.� In 2001 they were awarded a 2 billion + contract to “provide umbrella contract supporting the advanced acquisition planning process for use during wartime or military emergencies.� The project is projected to be completed in 2011. Halliburton's website shows that KBR was involved with projects in Afghanistan in 2001 under this contract.
www.halliburton.com/kbr/aboutKBR/index.jsp
www.halliburton.com/kbr/projectProfiles ... LOGCAP.pdf
This same division of Halliburton handles the planning for Iraq's oil fields, and it has done so since 2002. The company made it clear that they would be handling the plans for those fields in a 2002 press release:
“The DoD, through its US Army Logistics Civil Augmentation Program (LOGCAP) III contract with KBR, tapped the company in November 2002 to develop the contingency plan. Implementation of the plan is being executed through a separate contract KBR now holds with the US Army Corps of Engineers.�
Also interesting, and not really to the point, but interesting all the same, Halliburton was paid 65 million to support bases in Afghanistan, and it earned 33 million by building cells for suspected al-Qaeda members at Guantanamo Bay.
www.iniaresource.org/news/2003/4043.html
In 1996, Unocal won a contract to build a 1,005 mile oil pipeline in order to run from Afghanistan to Multon. Enron also announced, in 1997, that it would be building a pipeline between Dabhol and India. The Taliban did not want to work with the US for this pipeline, so from 1997 to 2001, the US was in negotiations with them. Members of the Taliban met with officials in both Texas and D.C. (where they met Bill Clinton!) The al-Qaida bombed several US embassies, and Unocal said that they would not attempt to build the pipeline.
www.alternet.org/story/12525
Unocal's vice president, John J. Maresca, presented a request for “structured assistance to encourage economic reforms and the development of appropriate investment climates� and also said that the US needed “support for international and regional efforts to achieve balanced and lasting political settlements within Russia, other newly independent states, and in Afghanistan� to the Congressional Committee in February of 1998.
He further explained that the proposed Unocal pipeline, which costs an estimated 2.5 billion dollars, would cross territory controlled by the Taliban, and the pipeline could not begin until a recognized government was in place.
www.eia.doe.gov/emeu.cabs/afghan.html
When Unocal withdrew, Enron got involved, and Dick Cheney and Kenneth Lay had their February 2001 to April meetings. Dick Cheney created a “draft energy proposal to include a provision to boost oil and natural gas production in India,� which if you remember was the location of Enron's pipeline. Cheney according to the article that I read, also helped Enron collect its 64 million debt from India.
While this was going on the United States was getting more involved with the Taliban. It gave them 43 million dollars for their supposed efforts to stamp out opium-poppy cultivation and 132 million in relief assistance.
Christina Rocca, who was, I'm not sure if she still is, in charge of Central Asian affairs for the US government, spoke with a Taliban representative a Mr. Zaef, who said that he was aware of the “strong U.S. commitment to help the Afghan people� in August of 2001.
However, shortly after, the Taliban became disenchanted with United States efforts to “help the Afghan people� when the U.S. refused to allow for reconstruction of “Afghanistan's infrastructure� and the opening of the pipeline for “local consumption.� According to the article that I read, instead of helping the people of Afghanistan, the United States government “wanted a closed pipeline pumping gas for export only and was not interested in helping to rebuild the country.�
It was near this time that the US reportedly threatened the Taliban by saying “we'll either carpet you in gold or carpet you in bombs.�
www.alternet.org/story/12525
What does all this mean? It means Bush and Cheney are in the White House, the Taliban are out of the picture, a democracy, or “balanced and lasting political settlements,� are in place in Afghanistan and on their way in Iraq, and Halliburton is in control of planning the movement of the oil and many other aspects of the deal.
It means that we did the right thing in Afghanistan?
Thank you, jc, for getting me interested in Noam Chomsky -- I believe that if you read Understanding Power, you will notice that this is a pattern for U.S. foreign policy, which is not new.
thank you sloth for making me proud -- here it is out of the nutshell:
Laying pipe, making money, and opium -- a real paxacidus mix:
In a book entitled Bin Laden: The Forbidden Truth Guillaume Dasquie explains that both the Bush and Clinton administrations negotiated with Taliban in order to construct a pipeline. The al-Qaida were monitoring these negations as explained in a memo that was written by Mohammed Atef.
In 2001, the U.S. threatened the Taliban when they would not comply with the wishes of the government, and in November of that year it is believed that Atef was killed.
www.salon.com/news/feature/2002/06/05/m ... _np.html?x
What is interesting to me is the Halliburton / Enron connection. A division of Halliburton known as KBR handles logistics for the DoD; it also “provides a wide range of engineering, construction, operations, and maintenance, logistics and project management services.� In 2001 they were awarded a 2 billion + contract to “provide umbrella contract supporting the advanced acquisition planning process for use during wartime or military emergencies.� The project is projected to be completed in 2011. Halliburton's website shows that KBR was involved with projects in Afghanistan in 2001 under this contract.
www.halliburton.com/kbr/aboutKBR/index.jsp
www.halliburton.com/kbr/projectProfiles ... LOGCAP.pdf
This same division of Halliburton handles the planning for Iraq's oil fields, and it has done so since 2002. The company made it clear that they would be handling the plans for those fields in a 2002 press release:
“The DoD, through its US Army Logistics Civil Augmentation Program (LOGCAP) III contract with KBR, tapped the company in November 2002 to develop the contingency plan. Implementation of the plan is being executed through a separate contract KBR now holds with the US Army Corps of Engineers.�
Also interesting, and not really to the point, but interesting all the same, Halliburton was paid 65 million to support bases in Afghanistan, and it earned 33 million by building cells for suspected al-Qaeda members at Guantanamo Bay.
www.iniaresource.org/news/2003/4043.html
In 1996, Unocal won a contract to build a 1,005 mile oil pipeline in order to run from Afghanistan to Multon. Enron also announced, in 1997, that it would be building a pipeline between Dabhol and India. The Taliban did not want to work with the US for this pipeline, so from 1997 to 2001, the US was in negotiations with them. Members of the Taliban met with officials in both Texas and D.C. (where they met Bill Clinton!) The al-Qaida bombed several US embassies, and Unocal said that they would not attempt to build the pipeline.
www.alternet.org/story/12525
Unocal's vice president, John J. Maresca, presented a request for “structured assistance to encourage economic reforms and the development of appropriate investment climates� and also said that the US needed “support for international and regional efforts to achieve balanced and lasting political settlements within Russia, other newly independent states, and in Afghanistan� to the Congressional Committee in February of 1998.
He further explained that the proposed Unocal pipeline, which costs an estimated 2.5 billion dollars, would cross territory controlled by the Taliban, and the pipeline could not begin until a recognized government was in place.
www.eia.doe.gov/emeu.cabs/afghan.html
When Unocal withdrew, Enron got involved, and Dick Cheney and Kenneth Lay had their February 2001 to April meetings. Dick Cheney created a “draft energy proposal to include a provision to boost oil and natural gas production in India,� which if you remember was the location of Enron's pipeline. Cheney according to the article that I read, also helped Enron collect its 64 million debt from India.
While this was going on the United States was getting more involved with the Taliban. It gave them 43 million dollars for their supposed efforts to stamp out opium-poppy cultivation and 132 million in relief assistance.
Christina Rocca, who was, I'm not sure if she still is, in charge of Central Asian affairs for the US government, spoke with a Taliban representative a Mr. Zaef, who said that he was aware of the “strong U.S. commitment to help the Afghan people� in August of 2001.
However, shortly after, the Taliban became disenchanted with United States efforts to “help the Afghan people� when the U.S. refused to allow for reconstruction of “Afghanistan's infrastructure� and the opening of the pipeline for “local consumption.� According to the article that I read, instead of helping the people of Afghanistan, the United States government “wanted a closed pipeline pumping gas for export only and was not interested in helping to rebuild the country.�
It was near this time that the US reportedly threatened the Taliban by saying “we'll either carpet you in gold or carpet you in bombs.�
www.alternet.org/story/12525
What does all this mean? It means Bush and Cheney are in the White House, the Taliban are out of the picture, a democracy, or “balanced and lasting political settlements,� are in place in Afghanistan and on their way in Iraq, and Halliburton is in control of planning the movement of the oil and many other aspects of the deal.
It means that we did the right thing in Afghanistan?
Thank you, jc, for getting me interested in Noam Chomsky -- I believe that if you read Understanding Power, you will notice that this is a pattern for U.S. foreign policy, which is not new.
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sara
Tommy,
I'm sorry I originally ignored your response. I am not defending the Taliban -- I don't know why you have that idea -- I am also not defending the United States in this matter, nor I am defending the department of defense.
The point of the first article that I posted as a guest was that our involvement in Afghanistan was how it is effecting the people there -- a farmer who is a father with a child (like you) whose child was harmed because of the United States, and I thought it was very interesting considering that it was reported while some media outlets here were patting the United State on the back for helping to establish "democracy" I truly believe that we are not establishing "democracies" -- I apologize. When I am angry I am not very articulate, which may have caused you to be confused about my post.
And Tragic, yes you're right, it's tragic we are going to hell in a handbasket.
I'm sorry I originally ignored your response. I am not defending the Taliban -- I don't know why you have that idea -- I am also not defending the United States in this matter, nor I am defending the department of defense.
The point of the first article that I posted as a guest was that our involvement in Afghanistan was how it is effecting the people there -- a farmer who is a father with a child (like you) whose child was harmed because of the United States, and I thought it was very interesting considering that it was reported while some media outlets here were patting the United State on the back for helping to establish "democracy" I truly believe that we are not establishing "democracies" -- I apologize. When I am angry I am not very articulate, which may have caused you to be confused about my post.
And Tragic, yes you're right, it's tragic we are going to hell in a handbasket.
golly!
could somebody please explain to me: how can one travel to hell in a handbasket? it sounds like fun!
(actually, i'm not being quite upfront here. to me, "we are going to hell in a handbasket" is a cute little phrase conservatives used all the time in the good ole nineties. so hearing it now kinda makes me think the good times are here again. oops, still not being upfront!)
(actually, i'm not being quite upfront here. to me, "we are going to hell in a handbasket" is a cute little phrase conservatives used all the time in the good ole nineties. so hearing it now kinda makes me think the good times are here again. oops, still not being upfront!)
Here is a blog (although I generally hate blogs as they give narcisism a bad name) called Hell in a Handbasket.net
http://www.hellinahandbasket.net/
Maybe it will enlighten you.
http://www.hellinahandbasket.net/
Maybe it will enlighten you.
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EMANRESU