Early Christmas for Sloth.

Tommy Martyn · Post by **Tommy Martyn** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:43 pm

Have just read the Hitchens article on Slate. He is talking about the "abuse" pictures yet to come out and the developing paper trail that unites the practice to instruction on high. If this all comes to light before we go to the polls or (Even better in my opinion) seeps out one drip at a time from now until November, then G W Bush is in for a tough ride.

Speaking of GWB, he is visiting a house just down the street from me next Monday. The in-laws are slated to go but may not be able to make it. The price of admission includes getting your picture taken with the pres. If they don't go, I am going to fill the spot. I sincerely promise the PA that this will go up on the board if it happens.

Maverick · Post by **Maverick** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:11 pm

That would be a very cool photo...especially if W has his hand behind your head making bunny ears

marky · Post by **marky** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:29 am

Well look, I hear a lot about Halliburton scandals lately. Reminds me of the conservative bitch columnist who said liberals were just being paranoid about the connection between Cheney and Halliburton...

Not only that but there's more scandals because the 9-11 commission determined there was no strong connection between Iraq and Al-Qaida, not just no connection between Iraq and 9-11...

And what other scandals do we have on offer? Oh yeah, a NON-PARTISAN group of former diplomats and people who worked under the Reagan and first Bush administrations issued a statement appealing to the U.S. people to vote Bush out because he has endangered American security...
this group wanted nothing to do with the Kerry campaign.

It just keeps comin' y'all! Scandal after scandal after scandal! Congress has voted to ban torture...etc etc etc etc and it will continue. Rest assured. November will be the biggest party of them all, just you watch. We Paxacidusers will be getting down in major STYLE come November, yo.

martino · Post by **martino** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:52 am

tommy: does the torture issue have any traction amongst "normal" folk?

i mean, you probably know a lot of middle-class professionals and middle-aged employed persons (as opposed to the young doped rebel types who inhabit this bb): do they really worry about al-ghraib?

i am not saying people are callous but there is some truth in the factoid that war is, by definition, hell. why should it be different in iraq?

also, remembering the infamous lt. calley who got away with mass murder in vietnam: have times really changed that much?

Tommy Martyn · Post by **Tommy Martyn** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:14 pm

For the sake of brevity Martino the answer is: Hell, yes!

Remeber these two central facts. The election will be decided in a handful of swing states (Ohio being one) by an even smaller group of swing voters. These folk are not going to cast votes after reading detailed position papers they are going to vote for largely emotional reasons.

If the Hitch is right then the revelations will seriously undermine the cental plank of the GWB campaign. Namely that, in these warlike times, he has the moral authority and resolve to plot the right course and see it through. The torture issue (Unlike Haliburton, Enron etc) has the potential to stick to the president. (There were no cameras at Mi Lai -apologies for spelling if applicable)

If the torture is widespread and if it was sanctioned from above and if that can be proved (In the court of public opinion not some whitewash inquiry in 18 months time) then John Kerry has a big stick to take to the presidential debates. At the moment this is where the race will be won. (I have the latest Atlantic Monthly to read on this topic and will tell you if it has anything to say. In the meantime I urge all the PA to subscribe to this mag)

As has been previously noted though. "A week is along time in politics." Anything can happen but be encouraged by the fact that Bush has spent 70 million out of his war chest and has not made a dent in the polls in the areas he wants to impact. Normally you would expect a surge on the back of that spending.

To get to the germ of your question. If the pictures really are like "Midnight Express : The Directors Cut." Then they will seriously undermine belief in the innate goodness of the GI. This is an emotional truth that has held firm since the second world war, regardless of the events since. The images will play big right across the board.

Hope that is enough of an answer for now.

TragicPixie · Post by **TragicPixie** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:04 pm

Actually... in my area (midwest/south) I'm gonna have to say the abuse isn't an issue. To quote my aunt "it's war; shit happens."
In fact, my family really doesn't give a shit because they keep going on and on about 9-11 and how horrible it was and how the US is the only good nation in the world and ... blah, blah, blah... but then; that's my family. Who are quite frankly a weird mix of southern rednecks and bigoted Catholics.

Thus, I'd have to say the only thing that may swing the vote for Kerry is the new draft bills. Afterall, they include women... they can't have their little girl being sent to war now can they?

personally though, I find the abuse disgusting. I find the war disgusting. Bush is a disgrace. That's why my panties say "My cherry for Kerry"

Maverick · Post by **Maverick** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:23 am

Is it just me, or does it seem like Pixie's been acting pretty saucy lately?

Those panties are probably the sexiest thing about Kerry's campaing. They should put them in his commercials.

TragicPixie · Post by **TragicPixie** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:59 am

Hmmm... am I?

Just consider yourself lucky I didn't post a picture !

Maverick · Post by **Maverick** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:42 pm

I think we all might consider ourselves luckier if you did post a picture...

Tommy Martyn · Post by **Tommy Martyn** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:54 pm

Dear TP I agree that GWB and co have weathered the storm relating to the pictures of abuse. What we are talking about here is the prospect of reveations regarding hard core torture. Mr Hitchens thinks this is on the cards as does Sy Hersch. (I wouldn't back against him)

If it does come out someone will take a fall. The options are between a high ranking military officer, the dept of defence or the commander in chief.

marky · Post by **marky** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:15 pm

I urge all the PA to subscribe to this mag)

It occurs to me I've been subconsciously wanting someone to suggest this sort of thing to me for ages now. I know The Seattle Times is not the be all end all, it just happens to be what's there in front of me every day. I'd love to find some other publication to read for the news [but not Time or Newsweek] and will look into it, thanks Tommy.

Last I read, Bush was up in the polls again from a month ago, that people are actually feeling more confident about the situation in Iraq. I hate to say it, but it really may just have to do with whatever issues are in the public's mind in November. "A week in politics is a long time" - you bet it is.

But I think more pictures and proof that it went far up the chain of command could certainly help things powerfully. Because it fucks with a really fundamental idea that Republican heartland types hold dear: the inherent goodness (i.e. as opposed to evil, and all the moral/Christian baggage of these words) of the soldier. You're right, Tommy.

Well, I'll keep my fingers crossed. In other news, Michael Moore's new movie Fahrenheit 9-11 is coming out. Conservative groups are writing to theaters begging them not to show it, of course.

Tommy Martyn · Post by **Tommy Martyn** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:12 pm

GWB is due down the street any minute now. He spent the early aternoon pontificating at a rehab centre and is heading over here to get his hands on about 2 million in cash. Tickets for the dinner were 25,000 a pop. Democracy in action. We have had the helicopters over and now they are closing the roads. It does give it all a sense of occasion.

One of the four sponsoring chairs for the dinner is Dick Farmer. I once worked for him. The first item of legislation signed into law by GWB was a bill limiting the amounts of workers comp employers were liable to pay out relating to work related repetitive strain injuries. Dick Farmer was instrumental in getting this bill passed and has benifited nicely from it. He gives lots of money to the republican party.

It never stops being depressing to watch these things play out in broad daylight.

Post by **mccutcheon** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:21 pm

yeah well I'm gonna seen Cat Power in broad daylight next weekend. She ain't no spring chicken, and either am I. I only look good in winter now. I go running with no shirt on and all the Latino girls yell 'Hey sexy man keep on running and come back when you lose some jiggle' I say 'Okay JLos shake that booty thang. And I will make YOU jiggle'

Then we giggle and they dance and I run to the bar.

Maverick · Post by **Maverick** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:30 pm

I think that was my favorite McCutcheon post ever. I want to make music video of it. We'll throw in some shots of GWB just to keep it related to this thread. We'll all make millions. And McCutcheon will have all of the Latinas he can handle and then some.