Sometimes I read things in the paper that defy belief. This is from the Seattle Times:
POWELL SAYS U.S. NEED FOR OIL INFLUENCED ACTIONS IN IRAQ
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"Secretary of State Colin Powell described the U.S. need for oil as a motivating factor in the Bush administration's decision to overthrow Saddam Hussein and seek his replacement by a democratic government.
"Powell, in an interview with Laura Ingraham on the Westwood One Radio Network,said the U.S. needs good relations with countries that can help it meet its energy demands. 'We need stable regimes in this part of the world who will be partners and friends of ours, because the fact of the matter is we do rely on imported oil to fuel our economy and to fuel our nation,' Powell said in the interview.
"In Iraq, we had an unstable regime, a dictatorial regime that was ready to be pushed adside," he said. "That's not sending our troops over for oil," Powell said. "That's sending our troops overseas to put in place a democratic nation rested on a foundation of openness and human rights that will be a friend and partner of the United States."
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This is COLIN POWELL. The man who went before the UNITED NATIONS making the case of WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION that WERE NOT THERE.
How could one nation even begin to insinuate that its own intelligence about such weapons supersedes the long time expertise and experience of the United Nations? And then to REFUSE TO SHARE IT WITH THE WEAPONS INSPECTORS!!!! How telling a clue to leave for your lie you idiots, if you had the goods you should have PROVED IT and SHARED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fuck Colin Powell, too. Bastard!
BUT HEY, MANY FRIENDS SHALL YE MAKE TO START A WAR!!!!
Well at least there is one cause for hope, I read some U.S. Supreme Court decision about the Guantanemo prisoners is suppsed to be decided in September, I believe. Close to the election...
Also, I rather relish the squirming that will go on about gas prices and SUV's...as if we couldn't see this coming! Well, I sure did anyway! I was only a kid in the 70's but I wasn't stupid! Are we going to have to relearn our late 70's gas crisis recession nonsense again? STUPID!!!!!!! Remember? Fuel efficient cars? And why? Didn't you learn anything from your parents?
Colin Powell says...
Colin Powell says...
Last edited by marky on Mon May 24, 2004 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mccutcheon
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mccutcheon
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Colin Powell is not evil...he is if anything, the only voice of honesty and reason in that whole Regime. I would think that those on this board would at least appreciate his honesty about the motivating factor for war being the US dependence on Iraq's oil. Of course he put it in political dooule-speak, he had to. I wish he had run for president instead of Bush. We wouldn't be there now if he had, or at least we'd be there with the support of the UN.
I hear him quotesd as speaking out against the interrogation policies in Iraq, saying that such tactics only jeapoardize the safety of Americans and American troops all over the world.
Colin Powell is not evil.
I hear him quotesd as speaking out against the interrogation policies in Iraq, saying that such tactics only jeapoardize the safety of Americans and American troops all over the world.
Colin Powell is not evil.
No .. Colin Powell is most definitely not evil. One thing also is that the Powell Doctrine of overwhelming force & forces that was thrown out by Rumsfeld in favor of the swift forces mode proved to be what they shoulda stayed with from the get go.
If Powell left this administration right now and spoke out against it's policies that he so clearly disagrees with, it would doom the administrations chances of getting re-elected.
If Powell left this administration right now and spoke out against it's policies that he so clearly disagrees with, it would doom the administrations chances of getting re-elected.
From CNN:
In a searing indictment, Al Gore said President Bush's "arrogance, willfulness and bungling" in Iraq have put Americans at risk around the world, and urged voters to oust him in November.
"The unpleasant truth is that President Bush's utter incompetence has made the world a far more dangerous place and dramatically increased the threat of terrorist attacks against the United States," said Gore, Bush's Democratic rival in the 2000 election.
"He planted the seeds of war. He harvested a whirlwind," Gore added. "And now the corrupt tree of a war waged on false premises has brought us the evil fruit of Americans torturing and sexually humiliating prisoners who are helpless in their care."
Gore said soldiers who abused prisoners in the Abu Ghraib prison scandal were acting on policies "designed and insisted upon by the Bush White House," including attempts to evade the Geneva Conventions' rules on the treatment of prisoners. The scandal, he said, has dragged America's reputation "through the mud of Saddam Hussein's torture prison."
Gore speech was sponsored by the MoveOn.org Political Action Committee, which has said it hopes to raise $50 million to beat Bush in November. Gore urged his audience to vote for Sen. John Kerry, the presumptive Democratic nominee.
GOP reaction
The Republican National Committee shot back with a statement saying that Gore's association with the group "cast serious doubt on his credibility."
In a searing indictment, Al Gore said President Bush's "arrogance, willfulness and bungling" in Iraq have put Americans at risk around the world, and urged voters to oust him in November.
"The unpleasant truth is that President Bush's utter incompetence has made the world a far more dangerous place and dramatically increased the threat of terrorist attacks against the United States," said Gore, Bush's Democratic rival in the 2000 election.
"He planted the seeds of war. He harvested a whirlwind," Gore added. "And now the corrupt tree of a war waged on false premises has brought us the evil fruit of Americans torturing and sexually humiliating prisoners who are helpless in their care."
Gore said soldiers who abused prisoners in the Abu Ghraib prison scandal were acting on policies "designed and insisted upon by the Bush White House," including attempts to evade the Geneva Conventions' rules on the treatment of prisoners. The scandal, he said, has dragged America's reputation "through the mud of Saddam Hussein's torture prison."
Gore speech was sponsored by the MoveOn.org Political Action Committee, which has said it hopes to raise $50 million to beat Bush in November. Gore urged his audience to vote for Sen. John Kerry, the presumptive Democratic nominee.
GOP reaction
The Republican National Committee shot back with a statement saying that Gore's association with the group "cast serious doubt on his credibility."
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mccutcheon
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Before I begin, let me add a disclaimer: I'm going to proceed to disagree (or at least APPEAR to disagree) with Mav and Myke in this post. That does not mean I harbor any ill will toward either of them, I am merely disagreeing. I'm not about to go bombastic on anyone's ass, we're having a debate, here. If you don't know what a debate is, take a debate class.
Now that that's out of the way, I'll begin with Mav's provocative quote:
"I would think that those on this board would at least appreciate his honesty about the motivating factor for war being the US dependence on Iraq's oil."
Perhaps you misunderstand me. I assure you my beef with his quote was not so much its content but it's timing. If indeed oil was such a motivating factor as he so eloquently describes it, then that should have been made known to the public BEFORE the war began, along with EVERY SINGLE OTHER GODDAMN MOTIVATING FACTOR DOWN TO THE LAST DIRTY SECRET THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION HARBORS, if indeed we are to assume they do harbor secrets (bloody obvious to me, if not to you).
Even if in some insane otherworld, the Bush administration actually did NOT have other motives than what they claim, even if all liberals are just psychotic paranoids as many Republicans would not hesitate to claim, the Bush administration STILL should have laid EVERY single teensy tiny "motivating factor" on the table beforehand.
Which brings me to Myke's quote:
"If Powell left this administration right now and spoke out against it's policies that he so clearly disagrees with, it would doom the administrations chances of getting re-elected."
Hmm. Well I want to preface what I'm going to say by expressing my feeling that I personally would not be so sure. But still my lack of Myke's certainty in this respect did not stop me from suddenly becoming angry once again this morning as I read some other article about Colin Powell. It wasn't that he had said anything this time that particularly offended me, I don't even remember what it was now, frankly, but I exclaimed: "Then WHY DOESN'T HE STEP DOWN? WHY DOESN'T HE FUCKING DOsomething?!?!?!?!?! I just can't understand it!"
I too felt the awesome power Myke speaks of, the power Colin Powell holds in his hand and yet, bafflingly remains reluctant to use. Maybe once upon a time I could almost, almost sympathise with Blair's position (I recall him once saying he felt pressured to go along just to be able to have some influence, since otherwise, Bush would be almost entirely unilateral), but not now and not Powell. I can't sympathise. Not that it necessarily would keep Bush from being re-elected but it sure could make a big dent in his fender, and yet Powell remains a loyal...ahem...no I won't get nasty now. I've made my point.
Have a good day.
Now that that's out of the way, I'll begin with Mav's provocative quote:
"I would think that those on this board would at least appreciate his honesty about the motivating factor for war being the US dependence on Iraq's oil."
Perhaps you misunderstand me. I assure you my beef with his quote was not so much its content but it's timing. If indeed oil was such a motivating factor as he so eloquently describes it, then that should have been made known to the public BEFORE the war began, along with EVERY SINGLE OTHER GODDAMN MOTIVATING FACTOR DOWN TO THE LAST DIRTY SECRET THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION HARBORS, if indeed we are to assume they do harbor secrets (bloody obvious to me, if not to you).
Even if in some insane otherworld, the Bush administration actually did NOT have other motives than what they claim, even if all liberals are just psychotic paranoids as many Republicans would not hesitate to claim, the Bush administration STILL should have laid EVERY single teensy tiny "motivating factor" on the table beforehand.
Which brings me to Myke's quote:
"If Powell left this administration right now and spoke out against it's policies that he so clearly disagrees with, it would doom the administrations chances of getting re-elected."
Hmm. Well I want to preface what I'm going to say by expressing my feeling that I personally would not be so sure. But still my lack of Myke's certainty in this respect did not stop me from suddenly becoming angry once again this morning as I read some other article about Colin Powell. It wasn't that he had said anything this time that particularly offended me, I don't even remember what it was now, frankly, but I exclaimed: "Then WHY DOESN'T HE STEP DOWN? WHY DOESN'T HE FUCKING DOsomething?!?!?!?!?! I just can't understand it!"
I too felt the awesome power Myke speaks of, the power Colin Powell holds in his hand and yet, bafflingly remains reluctant to use. Maybe once upon a time I could almost, almost sympathise with Blair's position (I recall him once saying he felt pressured to go along just to be able to have some influence, since otherwise, Bush would be almost entirely unilateral), but not now and not Powell. I can't sympathise. Not that it necessarily would keep Bush from being re-elected but it sure could make a big dent in his fender, and yet Powell remains a loyal...ahem...no I won't get nasty now. I've made my point.
Have a good day.
tell it like it is, marky!
...my slant on this. powell is marginalized within the government and has no leverage against rice/rumsfeld -- never had, never will have. he thought being a team player would help his position.
now, i am consciously being nasty here, but does anybody remember that funny-but-stupid movie "mars attacks"? there is a strangely prophetic colin powell caricature in there: the general who, before he gets vaporized by the martians, proudly calls up his wife and says something like "you see honey, it worked out just like i said, you just gotta play along and suck up to the boss and then sooner or later you get promoted to high places!"
in "mars attacks", the colin powell figure is a foolish, token negro. in 2004, colin powell is a guy who made a fool of himself at the UN (by propagating flimsy-ass WMD evidence), and who was forced by his president to eat his own doctrine. wherein exactly is the difference between the movie and life?
now, this fool is trying to redeem himself by telling the true story, but much too late. to me this sounds like bob mcnamara, version 2.0.
...my slant on this. powell is marginalized within the government and has no leverage against rice/rumsfeld -- never had, never will have. he thought being a team player would help his position.
now, i am consciously being nasty here, but does anybody remember that funny-but-stupid movie "mars attacks"? there is a strangely prophetic colin powell caricature in there: the general who, before he gets vaporized by the martians, proudly calls up his wife and says something like "you see honey, it worked out just like i said, you just gotta play along and suck up to the boss and then sooner or later you get promoted to high places!"
in "mars attacks", the colin powell figure is a foolish, token negro. in 2004, colin powell is a guy who made a fool of himself at the UN (by propagating flimsy-ass WMD evidence), and who was forced by his president to eat his own doctrine. wherein exactly is the difference between the movie and life?
now, this fool is trying to redeem himself by telling the true story, but much too late. to me this sounds like bob mcnamara, version 2.0.
Mark ... I shall not go bombastic on your ass. McCutcheon taught me an invaluable lesson ... don't go bombastic, buy the guy a beer and drink up.
Besides ... I'm don't necessarily agree with you on your positions in this matter. It's all gotten so complicated that I do believe we may actually both be right.
The one thing I will disagree with is the racial connection. Why must everyone always end up going there? If Powell was white and had did everything identical to what he has done, your arguments would not include the race card. Simply silly. He may be a man who refuses to really break the political wall down, but it's not some uncle tom scenario. Powell is marginalized I'll agree but not because he's black. You can get that way regardless of race ... Martino's reference to Bob McNamara is a prime example.
One other thing ... I don't think of Rice as really being in the hard core power group. I think there's more of a triumvarate that includes Rumsfeld, Cheney, & Karl Rove (Bush's political advisor). Cheney really welds more power than any of the others I do believe.
Besides ... I'm don't necessarily agree with you on your positions in this matter. It's all gotten so complicated that I do believe we may actually both be right.
The one thing I will disagree with is the racial connection. Why must everyone always end up going there? If Powell was white and had did everything identical to what he has done, your arguments would not include the race card. Simply silly. He may be a man who refuses to really break the political wall down, but it's not some uncle tom scenario. Powell is marginalized I'll agree but not because he's black. You can get that way regardless of race ... Martino's reference to Bob McNamara is a prime example.
One other thing ... I don't think of Rice as really being in the hard core power group. I think there's more of a triumvarate that includes Rumsfeld, Cheney, & Karl Rove (Bush's political advisor). Cheney really welds more power than any of the others I do believe.