I also must say the issue of Powell's race would never have crossed my mind. In the past it has occured to me though, that the choice of Rice and Powell may have been politically motivated. After all, the Dems are supposed to be the party of blacks. (not meaning there aren't black Republicans, but come on) But in any case, if Powell is marginalized within the administration, I don't think it is because of his race.
Furthermore, in reference to Martino's quote:
"now, this fool is trying to redeem himself by telling the true story"
I actually do not believe that Powell is telling the true story at all. The article I read about him was very much laced with HINTS and not much real meat of the truth. I remember part of what he said was that despite the attempt to keep an appearance of solidarity at all times, "we do disagree" within the administration, and "when we do, you guys sell papers". Again I don't remember the rest, but it was very obviously not the whole truth, just hints, and not very interesting.
We haven't heard from Mav yet, and I was picturing him in my mind as saying that Powell keeps his mouth shut because he is a Republican and would still agree with most Republican policy. Frankly, that's just not good enough when our physical safety as a nation and the *perception* of us as Americans is on the line. I remain almost equally baffled by Republican Senator John McCain, who seems to argue with the Bush administration bravely and vociferously on many matters, and yet one of the reasons he refuses to be a running mate with Kerry is because he says he still wants to see Bush elected (also because he said he doesn't want to be anyone's vice president, which I can understand). That mother fucker is one hell of a fence sitter. I don't understand what is wrong with people like McCain or Powell. Can't they see what's on the line here? Can't they see how much we are damaging our reputation abroad? Don't they know the terrorists want to toast our asses even more?
Imagine the power McCain might hold, if he chose to speak out more. And yet he keeps towing the line. Disgusting.
The irony is, eventually one day, the truth WILL come out. Even though Bush tries to keep it under wraps and refusing to admit any hint of failure, it doesn't make any difference. He may think luck will always ride with him, but he will not be president forever. One day after perhaps some decades have passed, it will all come out, in books. We will know. This isn't even up for debate. It's the inevitable truth.
Colin Powell says...
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mccutcheon
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OK, here's my take on it. Mark, you're partially right, I believe part of the fact Powell has remained quiet is because he is a republican, but not all of it. And although his race may have been in the "pro" column when they were making lists of possible Sec. of States, I don't think it was a primary motivator. Condoleeza is another story, I think...
Anyway, as to why people like McCain and Powell who are republicans but disagree with many of Bush's policies don't speak out more, I believe it is fairly simple. They believe that they can do more good and put out more fires from within thatn they could from without. If they completely speak out and alienate themselves from the ruling establisment, their influence will be lost. Although they would be more popular with the general public, their ability to work on change with at least a modicum of trust from those they disagree with would be lost. Perhaps this overly cautious and conservative method fails to make the radical changes that many wish for, it does preserve a semblance of respectability for the regime to moderate voters and nations. Yes, it is getting harder and harder to argue this point, the more lies that are exposed. People (including myself) are less impressed with Powell than we once were because he has not shown the leadership I would have expected. Yes, his public personna is coming off lately like a Bush Yes man, which turns a lot of us, and potentially world statesmen who formerly respected his quiet disagreements with his Commander in Chief, against him
This is a time when America needs a strong leader who can awaken the country from the Bush induced Christian hallucination of omnipotence, regain the respect of our allies, and maintain a firm hold on shaky military situations around the world. Unfortunately, that person does not seem to have surfaced yet. It doesn't seem to be Kerry, but unfortunately we are again in a "lesser of two evils" situation.
It is too bad that politics isn't as black and white as it seems it should be. What seems like an obvious choice of action to us (like, for example, telling your public the truth about why you as president take certain actions) carries more baggage than the American Idol tour bus. Politics isn't like physics...every action does not have an equal and opposite reaction. Every action has a series of reactions, often completely unequal to the energy of the original action. I say this only so that we all remember that this is why even those politicians that we initially respect often end up disappointing us when they don't speak out as firmly as we would wish on certain issues. They must, as a fact of their chosen profession, consider the possible repercussions many levels into the future for their careers, as well as for their constituents...and realize that sometimes their best intentions can and do backfire.
There's my political rant, and coincidentally, the reason I opted against a career in the field of politics, as I once briefly considered. IT is unfortunate, but you can't just get elected and act in a way that fulfills your dreams of making things better. You end up beholden to so many agendas and interests that you are lucky if you get even a few of the things fixzed that you wanted to. Unless, of course your goal is, as Bush's seems to be, to gain as much personal power and notoriety as possible, and continue a family dynasty that seems more analagous to schoolyard bullies than to honored statesmen.
And this comes from the guy who believes in military power and was once proud to live in what I believed was the greatest nation on earth...not because of military power, but because of it's capacity to bring the rest of the world together by hosting such bodies as the UN. Here's another equation for you:
as the time of Bush's reign increases, the pride of Americans who value a united and stable world decreases. With each inflammatory action, the pride decreases exponentially, until it approaches absolute 0.
Sorry, I just finished reading Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" guess it spilled into my political analogies.
Anyway, as to why people like McCain and Powell who are republicans but disagree with many of Bush's policies don't speak out more, I believe it is fairly simple. They believe that they can do more good and put out more fires from within thatn they could from without. If they completely speak out and alienate themselves from the ruling establisment, their influence will be lost. Although they would be more popular with the general public, their ability to work on change with at least a modicum of trust from those they disagree with would be lost. Perhaps this overly cautious and conservative method fails to make the radical changes that many wish for, it does preserve a semblance of respectability for the regime to moderate voters and nations. Yes, it is getting harder and harder to argue this point, the more lies that are exposed. People (including myself) are less impressed with Powell than we once were because he has not shown the leadership I would have expected. Yes, his public personna is coming off lately like a Bush Yes man, which turns a lot of us, and potentially world statesmen who formerly respected his quiet disagreements with his Commander in Chief, against him
This is a time when America needs a strong leader who can awaken the country from the Bush induced Christian hallucination of omnipotence, regain the respect of our allies, and maintain a firm hold on shaky military situations around the world. Unfortunately, that person does not seem to have surfaced yet. It doesn't seem to be Kerry, but unfortunately we are again in a "lesser of two evils" situation.
It is too bad that politics isn't as black and white as it seems it should be. What seems like an obvious choice of action to us (like, for example, telling your public the truth about why you as president take certain actions) carries more baggage than the American Idol tour bus. Politics isn't like physics...every action does not have an equal and opposite reaction. Every action has a series of reactions, often completely unequal to the energy of the original action. I say this only so that we all remember that this is why even those politicians that we initially respect often end up disappointing us when they don't speak out as firmly as we would wish on certain issues. They must, as a fact of their chosen profession, consider the possible repercussions many levels into the future for their careers, as well as for their constituents...and realize that sometimes their best intentions can and do backfire.
There's my political rant, and coincidentally, the reason I opted against a career in the field of politics, as I once briefly considered. IT is unfortunate, but you can't just get elected and act in a way that fulfills your dreams of making things better. You end up beholden to so many agendas and interests that you are lucky if you get even a few of the things fixzed that you wanted to. Unless, of course your goal is, as Bush's seems to be, to gain as much personal power and notoriety as possible, and continue a family dynasty that seems more analagous to schoolyard bullies than to honored statesmen.
And this comes from the guy who believes in military power and was once proud to live in what I believed was the greatest nation on earth...not because of military power, but because of it's capacity to bring the rest of the world together by hosting such bodies as the UN. Here's another equation for you:
as the time of Bush's reign increases, the pride of Americans who value a united and stable world decreases. With each inflammatory action, the pride decreases exponentially, until it approaches absolute 0.
Sorry, I just finished reading Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" guess it spilled into my political analogies.
Reading Stephen Hawking eh? I've actually never read that book, myself. I should get around to that some day. I like the idea of applying physics theory to politics. It's funny. Back when I used to be all into that sort of stuff, and was taking all sorts of science and math classes I was constantly applying those principles to other things.
Anyway, good to hear from you Mav. I also wanted to add that I never said Powell was "evil". It actually doesn't normally even occur to me to call people evil, even when I'm mad at them. One is tempted to say Bush is evil, but then you see, Nietzsche wrote a book called "Beyond Good and Evil", and in a situation like that, "evil" loses its meaning!
I just think that what needs to happen is a clear signal to the Arab world. Something big, indisputable, that even Al-Jazeera can't put any spin on. Something to redeem ourselves in the eyes of the Arab world in the wake of this prison crap. I mean, if Bush isn't willing to fire Rumsfeld, or even reprimand him, then we need something else to happen. He had said in his speech that the Abu Graib (however it's spelled) prison should be demolished and the Iraqis weren't so keen on that idea, saying it would be a waste of resources (I laughed when I read that, frankly - it states the obvious, doesn't it?). So anyway, something needs to happen to redeem ourselves, and I don't care if it comes from Powell or McCain or whoever, but someone important and visible has got to say something that sends a clear signal that Americans are not well...evil.
More recently I read that the military is thinking of investing resources in rebuilding mosques in Iraq, even ones not necessarily harmed in the fighting, because it would be such a great gesture of good will. I really hope we do a lot of mosque rebuilding.
Anyway, good to hear from you Mav. I also wanted to add that I never said Powell was "evil". It actually doesn't normally even occur to me to call people evil, even when I'm mad at them. One is tempted to say Bush is evil, but then you see, Nietzsche wrote a book called "Beyond Good and Evil", and in a situation like that, "evil" loses its meaning!
I just think that what needs to happen is a clear signal to the Arab world. Something big, indisputable, that even Al-Jazeera can't put any spin on. Something to redeem ourselves in the eyes of the Arab world in the wake of this prison crap. I mean, if Bush isn't willing to fire Rumsfeld, or even reprimand him, then we need something else to happen. He had said in his speech that the Abu Graib (however it's spelled) prison should be demolished and the Iraqis weren't so keen on that idea, saying it would be a waste of resources (I laughed when I read that, frankly - it states the obvious, doesn't it?). So anyway, something needs to happen to redeem ourselves, and I don't care if it comes from Powell or McCain or whoever, but someone important and visible has got to say something that sends a clear signal that Americans are not well...evil.
More recently I read that the military is thinking of investing resources in rebuilding mosques in Iraq, even ones not necessarily harmed in the fighting, because it would be such a great gesture of good will. I really hope we do a lot of mosque rebuilding.
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Guest
Can't be bothered to read all the above but it seems that some people cling to the belief that CP is a credible leader. Could you please point to his acheivements? Perhaps his role in the Mi Lai investigation? Or his open defiance of a sitting president on the issue of gays in the military?
It has long been noted that he ws outflanked and outwitted by the dept of defence. He has chosen not to fall on his sword though. What does that tell us about this man of principle who got his son the cushiest job in the world.
It has long been noted that he ws outflanked and outwitted by the dept of defence. He has chosen not to fall on his sword though. What does that tell us about this man of principle who got his son the cushiest job in the world.
I agree with Mav that Colin only took the job because he thought he could be a voice of reason. Trouble is you can't hear a voice of reason in a deafining bin of donkey dung.
I think what ended up happening is the Republicans used Powell's blackness to make their ludicrous messsages more 'real'. They had him delivery the bad news on more than one occassion.
But while he may be black (I wanna see the DNA test myself because the if the guy is black than he is an albino or something) he is still a militarry guy and military guys take orders from their superiors. That is how they rise throguh the ranks. Bush is his commanding officer, however ludicrous that seems (I am sorry to use the word ludicrous so much I just watched Space Balls last night).
So in effect what Powell has become is not a life raft of melanin in a sea of white lies, but a catalyst for more terror and more violence.
Powell is black, maybe. The trouble is he is not black enough. Chris Rock or Michael Jordan would have never let this happen if they had been Secretary of State.
As for Condoleeza Rice, why does she play Little Miss Innocent all the time when the questions get tough? What is she really hiding? We all know it was a boatload of BS.
I think what ended up happening is the Republicans used Powell's blackness to make their ludicrous messsages more 'real'. They had him delivery the bad news on more than one occassion.
But while he may be black (I wanna see the DNA test myself because the if the guy is black than he is an albino or something) he is still a militarry guy and military guys take orders from their superiors. That is how they rise throguh the ranks. Bush is his commanding officer, however ludicrous that seems (I am sorry to use the word ludicrous so much I just watched Space Balls last night).
So in effect what Powell has become is not a life raft of melanin in a sea of white lies, but a catalyst for more terror and more violence.
Powell is black, maybe. The trouble is he is not black enough. Chris Rock or Michael Jordan would have never let this happen if they had been Secretary of State.
As for Condoleeza Rice, why does she play Little Miss Innocent all the time when the questions get tough? What is she really hiding? We all know it was a boatload of BS.