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marky
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Post by marky »

Yeah, ain't that somethin'? We're going to leave the country before there's even been fucking elections. SO dedicated to the cause of democracy, so steadfastly determined Bush-style, that we're going to actually LEAVE having only appointed our own governing council.

You know what? Bush's father was called a wimp until he redeemed himself by starting the Gulf War. Now his son is also a wimp. It's a wimpy family.
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mccutcheon
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Post by mccutcheon »

All the soldiers are going to stay. But instead of being occupiers they will be there as "guests". I swear to god that's the word Donny R used.
marky
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Post by marky »

Hands up who wants to invite some "guests" over to our country?
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mccutcheon
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Post by mccutcheon »

They don't know their Eisenmanners from their assholes.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. military's code name for a crackdown on resistance in Iraq was also used by the Nazis for an aborted operation to damage the Soviet power grid during World War II.

"Operation Iron Hammer" this week launched the 1st Armored Division's 3rd Brigade into the roughest parts of Baghdad to ferret out the attackers who have killed scores of U.S. troops since Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was ousted in April.

A Pentagon official said the name was chosen because of the "Old Ironsides" nickname of the 1st Armored Division. He was unaware of any connection to any Nazi operation.

"Eisenhammer," the German for "iron hammer," was a Luftwaffe code name for a plan to destroy Soviet generating plants in the Moscow and Gorky areas in 1943, according to Universal Lexikon on the www.infobitte.de Web site. A researcher at Britain's Imperial War Museum confirmed the existence of Eisenhammer.

The Nazi's long-range bombing operation was repeatedly postponed and was finally scrapped after an allied air assault destroyed many of the German planes on the ground in 1945, shortly before the defeat of Germany.

After it declared war on terrorism, U.S. officials changed the code name for its impending attack on Afghanistan to Operation Enduring Freedom.

The original name, Operation Infinite Justice, was jettisoned amid fears that the Muslim world, already leery of U.S. intentions, would object on the basis of Koranic teachings that only God can provide infinite justice.
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Post by saudade »

I just found out to day that the Army(yes, I'm in the Army... should I even bother explaining?) is going to stop me from getting out and is going to send me to Iraq. I would have gotten out in less than a month. Holy shit. If anybody has any good ideas(not like 'move to mexico, or tatoo 'fuck army' on my head' etc) on convincing them not to, now is the time...
"I spent all summer days driving."
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Post by Guest »

marky wrote: You know what? Bush's father was called a wimp until he redeemed himself by starting the Gulf War. Now his son is also a wimp. It's a wimpy family.
Even though we're actually staying... he's still a wimp... a complete pussy. How can a skinny ass old guy with a fat head wearing a nice suit in an air conditioned office surrounded by body guards tell the resistance fighters to "bring it on"!? Yeah, you tell those Dubya! Come shoot up our troops. Woohoo.

I guess he thinks he'll get respect from military types for beeing all 'HOOAH' and 'HOO-RAH'?

What a turd.
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Sloth
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Post by Sloth »

Can the Army do that?

I guess so. If you have a signed contract with them that you get out in one month isn't that legal? Can the military really make you stay past your tour if you don't want?

First, I would tell them you don't want to go. Tell them you have converted to Islam, and then bow to the East towards mecca during mess hall or every couple of hours to scare them.

No really, I don't want to make light of the situation. I hope you don't have to go. This isn't Stripes with Bill Murray. This is the real deal. Those people hate us and they have good reason to. If you do go, duck a lot and don't stand in one place to long. Walk in zig-zags. That's what they told us when the DC sniper was around. Makes sense to this sloth. Also tell all the boys in Baghdad about Pax Acidus.
sara

Post by sara »

yes, they can make you stay. And depending on your enlistment they can recall your ass too, my husband just had a nightmare about it the other night. I feel like a shit for not having replied to this sooner. I think it all depends on how you want to be discharged. I know in the navy if you smoke a joint before a drug test, well then boom, but my husband's friends who popped positive on drug tests had a really a hard time getting a job afterward.

Also do you have any medical conditions that they "overlooked" during your examination? Or is there a spouse or child who can't live without you, I know you can get out on what I think they call "hardship" if that's the case, but you're going to have to prove it. The very best thing for you to do is to get a civilian lawyer who knows military law, check out veteran's affairs websites too, they have helpful advice sometimes.
rosie

Post by rosie »

i guess being gay is not an option? what about a bad motorcycle accident? i am being serious. how about a pyschiatric disorder?
marky
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Post by marky »

Totally, Rosie. I'm thinking "be gay, be transgendered"...but what the hell do I know about the military? Psychiatric disorders...yeah...I can name some if you need ideas...

Mav, you have any ideas?
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Tommy Martyn
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Post by Tommy Martyn »

Well, I don't know how to put this any other way than by saying that the person in question should face up to the fact that they joined tha army voluntarily. When you join a body like that you knowingly give up quite a lot of liberties. Soldiers do what they are told. Armies can't pick and choose their battles. If it were a question of conscription, then you would have my full sympathy. These though are your choices and your oaths. You have a duty to do what the army tells you. I am sorry that you were not aware that you could be called back. This is a fairly standard thing at home where after regular service you are put on active reserve. In times of war it makes sense to tap into or hold onto this expertise.

I can understand your fears about heading into dangerous territory but isn't that what you signed on for?
sloth

Post by sloth »

Most people join the Army when they are 18 and there only choice is McDonalds or homelessness. Call this sloth a bleeding heart, but I have sympathy. We don't educate our kids here like over in Europe, Tommy, cut therm a break. These people are virgins who still eat Froot Loops.

All those goddam commercials make it seem like a video game come true. They don't tell you are expendable and fighting for the greater glory of the Texas millionaires club.

What they need is a night of debauchery with old slothy. We'd all take cokers and ecstasy and smoke cigarettes and drink fruity drinks and dance to Abba and invade the local nunnery. If any cops show up and try to stop us, we'll blanket them with friendly fire.
Last edited by sloth on Fri Nov 28, 2003 2:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Maverick
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Post by Maverick »

In an ideal world, I'd agree with Sloth, but since we live in the real world, I have to agree with Tommy on this one. It is quite unfortunate that many enter the military feeling that there are no other options, and therefore don't fully comprehend what they're getting themselves into, but regardless of propoganda or eductional background, anyone contemplating the military must know that it is an armed force, designed to send people to dangeous, foreign lands, often to their deaths.

If there are any 18 year old froot-loop eating party people out there reading this, take my advice...join the military only if you can truly stomach the idea of dying for your country, even if you think you're getting assigned to the easiest, safest duty possible. If you at all cant bear the idea of being put in an unfriendly situaation, McDonalds is a better option for you.

And the military doesn't only fight for the Texas Millionaires club, despite recent evidence. They routinely perform duties that keep our borders and citrizens abroad safe. I'm not a big fan of what's happening in Iraq either, but we can't devaluate the whole military structure for that.

As someone else said to the unfortunate enlistee, keep your head down and your wits about you. Surround yourself as much as possible with people you trust, and remember the things that matter to you, and you'll get through it.
marky
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Post by marky »

Well, I'm glad you guys have kept on writing about this because I read this email today from a friend who normally sends me far too many forwarded emails for my liking, and upon reading it I really wanted to post it, powerful stuff. Wasn't sure I'd find a suitable place to post it but now I have. Here it is:

By Stan Goff (US Army Retired)

Dear American service person in Iraq,

I am a retired veteran of the army, and my own son is among you, a paratrooper like I was. The changes that are happening to every one of you--some more extreme than others--are changes I know very well. So I'm going to say some things to you straight up in the language to which you are accustomed.

In 1970, I was assigned to the 173rd Airborne Brigade, then based in northern Binh Dinh Province in what was then the Republic of Vietnam. When I went there, I had my head full of shit: shit from the news media, shit from movies, shit about what it supposedly mean to be a man, and shit from a lot of my know-nothing neighbors who would tell you plenty about Vietnam even though they'd never been there, or to war at all.

The essence of all this shit was that we had to "stay the course in Vietnam," and that we were on some mission to save good Vietnamese from bad Vietnamese, and to keep the bad Vietnamese from hitting beachheads outside of Oakland. We stayed the course until 58,000 Americans were dead and lots more maimed for life, and 3,000,000 Southeast Asians were dead. Ex-military people and even many on active duty played a big part in finally bringing that crime to a halt.



When I started hearing about weapons of mass destruction that threatened the United States from Iraq, a shattered country that had endured almost a decade of trench war followed by an invasion and twelve years of sanctions, my first question was how in the hell can anyone believe that this suffering country presents a threat to the United States? But then I remembered how many people had believed Vietnam threatened the United States. Including me.

When that bullshit story about weapons came apart like a two-dollar shirt, the politicians who cooked up this war told everyone, including you, that you would be greeted like great liberators. They told us that we were in Vietnam to make sure everyone there could vote.

What they didn't tell me was that before I got there in 1970, the American armed forces had been burning villages, killing livestock, poisoning farmlands and forests, killing civilians for sport, bombing whole villages, and commiting rapes and massacres, and the people who were grieving and raging over that weren't in a position to figure out the difference between me--just in country--and the people who had done those things to them.

What they didn't tell you is that over a million and a half Iraqis died between 1991 and 2003 from malnutrition, medical neglect, and bad sanitation. Over half a million of those who died were the weakest: the children, especially very young children.

My son who is over there now has a baby. We visit with our grandson every chance we get. He is eleven months old now. Lots of you have children, so you know how easy it is to really love them, and love them so hard you just know your entire world would collapse if anything happened to them. Iraqis feel that way about their babies, too. And they are not going to forget that the United States government was largely responsible for the deaths of half a million kids.

So the lie that you would be welcomed as liberators was just that. A lie. A lie for people in the United States to get them to open their purse for this obscenity, and a lie for you to pump you up for a fight.

And when you put this into perspective, you know that if you were an Iraqi, you probably wouldn't be crazy about American soldiers taking over your towns and cities either. This is the tough reality I faced in Vietnam. I knew while I was there that if I were Vietnamese, I would have been one of the Vietcong.

But there we were, ordered into someone else's country, playing the role of occupier when we didn't know the people, their language, or their culture, with our head full of bullshit our so-called leaders had told us during training and in preparation for deployment, and even when we got there. There we were, facing people we were ordered to dominate, but any one of whom might be pumping mortars at us or firing AKs at us later that night. The question we stated to ask is who put us in this position?

In our process of fighting to stay alive, and in their process of trying to expel an invader that violated their dignity, destroyed their property, and killed their innocents, we were faced off against each other by people who made these decisions in $5,000 suits, who laughed and slapped each other on the back in Washington DC with their fat fucking asses stuffed full of cordon blue and caviar.

They chumped us. Anyone can be chumped.

That's you now. Just fewer trees and less water.

We haven't figured out how to stop the pasty-faced, oil-hungry backslappers in DC yet, and it looks like you all might be stuck there for a little longer. So I want to tell you the rest of the story.

I changed over there in Vietnam and they were not nice changes either. I started getting pulled into something--something that craved other peole's pain. Just to make sure I wasn't regarded as a "fucking missionary" or a possible rat, I learned how to fit myself into that group that was untouchable, people too crazy to fuck with, people who desired the rush of omnipotence that comes with setting someone's house on fire just for the pure hell of it, or who could kill anyone, man, woman, or child, with hardly a second thought. People who had the power of life and death--because they could.

The anger helps. It's easy to hate everyone you can't trust because of your circumstances, and to rage about what you've seen, what has happened to you, and what you have done and can't take back.

It was all an act for me, a cover-up for deeper fears I couldn't name, and the reason I know that is that we had to dehumanize our victims before we did the things we did. We knew deep down that what we were doing was wrong. So they became dinks or gooks, just like Iraqis are now being transformed into ragheads or hajjis. People had to be reduced to "niggers" here before they could be lynched. No difference. We convinced ourselves we had to kill them to survive, even when that wasn't true, but something inside us told us that so long as they were human beings, with the same intrinsic value we had as human beings, we were not allowed to burn their homes and barns, kill their animals, and sometimes even kill them. So we used these words, these new names, to reduce them, to strip them of their essential humanity, and then we could do things like adjust artillery fire onto the cries of a baby.

Until that baby was silenced, though, and here's the important thing to understand, that baby never surrendered her humanity. I did. We did. That's the thing you might not get until it's too late. When you take away the humanity of another, you kill your own humanity. You attack your own soul because it is standing in the way.

So we finish our tour, and go back to our families, who can see that even though we function, we are empty and incapable of truly connecting to people any more, and maybe we can go for months or even years before we fill that void where we surrendered our humanity, with chemical anesthetics--drugs, alcohol, until we realize that the void can never be filled and we shoot ourselves, or head off into the street where we can disappear with the flotsam of society, or we hurt others, especially those who try to love us, and end up as another incarceration statistic or a mental patient.

You can ever escape that you became a racist because you made the excuse that you needed that to survive, that you took things away from people that you can never give back, or that you killed a piece of yourself that you may never get back.

Some of us do. We get lucky and someone gives a damn enough to emotionally resuscitate us and bring us back to life. Many do not.

I live with the rage every day of my life, even when no one else sees it. You might hear it in my words. I hate being chumped.

So here is my message to you. You will do what you have to do to survive, however you define survival, while we do what we have to do to stop this thing. But don't surrender your humanity. Not to fit in. Not to prove yourself. Not for an adrenaline rush. Not to lash out when you are angry and frustrated. Not for some ticket-punching fucking military careerist to make his bones on. Especially not for the Bush-Cheney Gas & Oil Consortium.

The big bosses are trying to gain control of the world's energy supplies to twist the arms of future economic competitors. That's what's going on, and you need to understand it, then do what you need to do to hold on to your humanity. The system does that; tells you you are some kind of hero action figures, but uses you as gunmen. They chump you.

Your so-called civilian leadership sees you as an expendable commodity. They don't care about your nightmares, about the DU that you are breathing, about the loneliness, the doubts, the pain, or about how you humanity is stripped away a piece at a time. They will cut your benefits, deny your illnesses, and hide your wounded and dead from the public. They already are.

They don't care. So you have to. And to preserve your own humanity, you must recognize the humanity of the people whose nation you now occupy and know that both you and they are victims of the filthy rich bastards who are calling the shots.

They are your enemies--The Suits--and they are the enemies of peace, and the enemies of your families, especially if they are Black families, or immigrant families, or poor families. They are thieves and bullies who take and never give, and they say they will "never run" in Iraq, but you and I know that they will never have to run, because they fucking aren't there. You are

They'll skin and grin while they are getting what they want from you, and throw you away like a used condom when they are done. Ask the vets who are having their benefits slashed out from under them now. Bushfeld and their cronies are parasites, and they are the sole beneficiaries of the chaos you are learning to live in. They get the money. You get the prosthetic devices, the nightmares, and the mysterious illnesses.

So if your rage needs a target, there they are, responsible for your being there, and responsible for keeping you there. I can't tell you to disobey. That would probably run me afoul of the law. That will be a decision you will have to take when and if the circumstances and your own conscience dictate. But it perfeclty legal for you to refuse illegal orders, and orders to abuse or attack civilians are illegal. Ordering you to keep silent about these crimes is also illegal.

I can tell you, without fear of legal consequence, that you are never under any obligation to hate Iraqis, you are never under any obligation to give yourself over to racism and nihilism and the thirst to kill for the sake of killing, and you are never under any obligation to let them drive out the last vestiges of your capacity to see and tell the truth to yourself and to the world. You do not owe them your souls.

Come home safe, and come home sane. The people who love you and who have loved you all your lives are waiting here, and we want you to come back and be able to look us in the face. Don't leave your souls in the dust there like another corpse.

Hold on to your humanity.

Stan Goff

US Army (Ret.)

Stan Goff is the author of "Hideous Dream: A Soldier's Memoir of the US Invasion of Haiti" (Soft Skull Press, 2000) and of the upcoming book "Full Spectrum Disorder" (Soft Skull Press, 2003). He is a member of the BRING THEM HOME NOW! coordinating committee, a retired Special Forces master sergeant, and the father of an active duty soldier. Email for BRING THEM HOME NOW! is bthn@mfso.org.

Goff can be reached at: sherrynstan@igc.org
marky
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Post by marky »

BTW, Sloth, I'm all for dancing to Abba. In my Blondie exploration, I have actually been reminded me of Abba at times. Though I've never owned an Abba record, I can think of worse things than someone playing me an Abba record. That's all for now.
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