Thank you tasha for being a reasonable, non-violent, yet realistic voice amongst all of the blanket anti-war sentiment.
Yes war is bad, killing other humans is bad. But unfortunately, due to the stupidity and aggression of many insane or unenlightenedd people, the sane must sometimes be willing to take up arms and fight too.
I just wish we hadn't got so good at it. I'm all for handing Saddam Hussein and George Bush broadswords and letting them hack it out...except I bet Saddaam would kick George's ass.
no War for Oil
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mccutcheon
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Volunteer 'Human Shields' to Head for Iraq
2 hours, 16 minutes ago Add World - Reuters to My Yahoo!
By Andrew Cawthorne
LONDON (Reuters) - A first wave of mainly Western volunteers will leave London this weekend on a convoy bound for Iraq to act as "human shields" at key sites and populous areas in case of a U.S.-led war on Baghdad.
"The potential for white Western body parts flying around with the Iraqi ones should make them think again about this imperialist oil war," organizer Ken Nichols, a former U.S. marine in the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites), told Reuters.
His "We the People" organization will be sending off a first group of 50 human shields from the London mayor's City Hall building Saturday, part of a series of departures organizers say will involve hundreds, possibly thousands, of volunteers.
Nichols' planned human shield convoys are one of several such efforts around the world to mobilize activists in Iraq as a deterrent against military strikes on Baghdad.
In Bucharest, more than 100 Romanian diehard communists said Tuesday they would travel by bus to Iraq to act as human shields in case of a U.S. attack.
Members of the tiny Romanian Workers Party, which took the mantle of ousted dictator Nicolae Ceausescu's defunct Communist party in 1995, said they would set off next month to support "the cause of the people."
The new human shield plans revive memories of the 1991 Gulf War when President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) forcibly held thousands of Western hostages after his invasion of Kuwait.
Many were put near sensitive sites in a bid to stop attacks that proved futile, although there are not thought to have been any casualties among the Western hostages.
Baghdad also used Iraqis, alongside some foreign volunteers, as shields in 1998 against U.S.-British bombing.
Nichols' groups intend to drive through Europe and the Middle East en route to Iraq. The first will travel in a pair of double-decker buses, led by a car with a white peace flag on it.
"We are on the verge of something big," said volunteer Christiaan Briggs, 26, from New Zealand. He argued that the stream of human shield volunteers was symptomatic of radicalizing anti-war opinion around the world.
"People know this is wrong. It is just so blatantly transparent how the U.S. is trying to impose its hegemony."
McCutcheon is staying home because there is a shortage of Irish pubs in Baghdad.
2 hours, 16 minutes ago Add World - Reuters to My Yahoo!
By Andrew Cawthorne
LONDON (Reuters) - A first wave of mainly Western volunteers will leave London this weekend on a convoy bound for Iraq to act as "human shields" at key sites and populous areas in case of a U.S.-led war on Baghdad.
"The potential for white Western body parts flying around with the Iraqi ones should make them think again about this imperialist oil war," organizer Ken Nichols, a former U.S. marine in the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites), told Reuters.
His "We the People" organization will be sending off a first group of 50 human shields from the London mayor's City Hall building Saturday, part of a series of departures organizers say will involve hundreds, possibly thousands, of volunteers.
Nichols' planned human shield convoys are one of several such efforts around the world to mobilize activists in Iraq as a deterrent against military strikes on Baghdad.
In Bucharest, more than 100 Romanian diehard communists said Tuesday they would travel by bus to Iraq to act as human shields in case of a U.S. attack.
Members of the tiny Romanian Workers Party, which took the mantle of ousted dictator Nicolae Ceausescu's defunct Communist party in 1995, said they would set off next month to support "the cause of the people."
The new human shield plans revive memories of the 1991 Gulf War when President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) forcibly held thousands of Western hostages after his invasion of Kuwait.
Many were put near sensitive sites in a bid to stop attacks that proved futile, although there are not thought to have been any casualties among the Western hostages.
Baghdad also used Iraqis, alongside some foreign volunteers, as shields in 1998 against U.S.-British bombing.
Nichols' groups intend to drive through Europe and the Middle East en route to Iraq. The first will travel in a pair of double-decker buses, led by a car with a white peace flag on it.
"We are on the verge of something big," said volunteer Christiaan Briggs, 26, from New Zealand. He argued that the stream of human shield volunteers was symptomatic of radicalizing anti-war opinion around the world.
"People know this is wrong. It is just so blatantly transparent how the U.S. is trying to impose its hegemony."
McCutcheon is staying home because there is a shortage of Irish pubs in Baghdad.
no War for Oil
tasha: you're saying, if i get it correctly, that war is inevitable in some situations.
i don't think anybody here (apart from ooh, maybe), has a problem with that statement.
does this statement have anything at all to do with iraq? would you apply it to vietnam or any of the other numerous imperialist wars we've been through?
(when i say we, i mean nato and our other alliances..)
i don't think anybody here (apart from ooh, maybe), has a problem with that statement.
does this statement have anything at all to do with iraq? would you apply it to vietnam or any of the other numerous imperialist wars we've been through?
(when i say we, i mean nato and our other alliances..)
no War for Oil
I'm not all for the war in Iraq ... but "numerous imperialistic wars" ... hmmm ... that might be stretching it a bit. Tasha's statement was on par. Some times war is inevitable though always ugly. If Nato had not stepped in, would the people of Kosovo or Croatia or the other Balkan nations be better or worse off? I think they'd argue much better. Though all of Korea isn't free ... look how much more prosperous the southern half is than the north with it's starving people and megalomaniac dictator. I've said this before ... if Winston Churchill had not stood firm ... you'd be wearing a Swastika today. His tiny country was the only one with the balls to stand up against Hitler. America makes mistakes. No doubt about it. But an awful lot of the people who complain about our "imperialistic nature" are the same ones benefiting from the freedoms that we helped them obtain and/or maintain ... including the vast majority of Western Europe. Western Europeans as well as Americans are a spoiled lot. Love their freedoms ... their cars and wines and jet planes and ability to move between the nations ... yet most have no concept of how tenuous those freedoms are and what life would be like without them ... and most of all, what it took to get them.
I certainly am not yet convinced a war in Iraq is worthwhile though I would like to see the Iraqis overthrown their own sadistic leader. However, sometimes I just wanna shout to all of the bused in peace protesters and activists drinking their wines while lamenting the imperialistic U.S.A ... "STOP WHINING!".
I certainly am not yet convinced a war in Iraq is worthwhile though I would like to see the Iraqis overthrown their own sadistic leader. However, sometimes I just wanna shout to all of the bused in peace protesters and activists drinking their wines while lamenting the imperialistic U.S.A ... "STOP WHINING!".
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mccutcheon
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That'd be Guinness, or yeah, wine will do.
no War for Oil
I agree with Myke...I hate whiners too...
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mccutcheon
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BERLIN - German and French officials fired back angrily Thursday at Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld's dismissal of their governments as the "old Europe," and said the comments underscored America's arrogance as it prepares for possible war with Iraq.
Rumsfeld also said that German and French positions had proved to be a "problem" that had not been created by "vast numbers of other countries in Europe. They're not with France and Germany on this. They're with the United States," Rumsfeld said at a briefing Wednesday.
"We should try to treat each other sensibly," said German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer. "Our position is not a problem, it is a constructive contribution," he said as he left for a tour of Turkey and the Middle East in an attempt to cool the crisis.
You know some people give me the creeps. Rumsfeld is one of them.
Rumsfeld also said that German and French positions had proved to be a "problem" that had not been created by "vast numbers of other countries in Europe. They're not with France and Germany on this. They're with the United States," Rumsfeld said at a briefing Wednesday.
"We should try to treat each other sensibly," said German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer. "Our position is not a problem, it is a constructive contribution," he said as he left for a tour of Turkey and the Middle East in an attempt to cool the crisis.
You know some people give me the creeps. Rumsfeld is one of them.
no War for Oil
the uproar over here is pretty damn strong. the french foreign minister, asked what he thought of rummy's words, said what amounted to "shit". both liberal and conservative politicians in both countries agree that the remarks are insulting.
so that's what you get: germans and french united in uproar against america. left and right together against bush.
they say this is the biggest thing for german-french friendship in decades. "i am proud to be an old european" is the sentence of the day, week, month...
rumsfeld is supposed to be the (only) brainy guy in the bush administration. what was the motherfucker thinking?
so that's what you get: germans and french united in uproar against america. left and right together against bush.
they say this is the biggest thing for german-french friendship in decades. "i am proud to be an old european" is the sentence of the day, week, month...
rumsfeld is supposed to be the (only) brainy guy in the bush administration. what was the motherfucker thinking?
no War for Oil
Rumsfeld and Bush are just careless stupid idiots. Why they don't think more about diplomacy and treating other countries with respect I don't know, I mean it's just basic common sense that doing so would be in our best interest.
But I have seen the light at the end of the tunnel. Bush's approval rating now is back down where it was before 9/11, and though he has introduced some proposals for a tax plan and medicare/prescription drugs, it's not in any way clear that Republicans in general are going to go along with him on these proposals. You see, Bush is not going to be president forever, and when he's gone we are going to party so hard. The whole world is going to party so hard when he is gone. That day is coming.
I read a letter in the local paper today from someone who said something to the effect that if Germany could thank us for stepping in to save the world from the Nazis, now it appears Germany may be returning the favor by saving the world from Bush's America.
But I have seen the light at the end of the tunnel. Bush's approval rating now is back down where it was before 9/11, and though he has introduced some proposals for a tax plan and medicare/prescription drugs, it's not in any way clear that Republicans in general are going to go along with him on these proposals. You see, Bush is not going to be president forever, and when he's gone we are going to party so hard. The whole world is going to party so hard when he is gone. That day is coming.
I read a letter in the local paper today from someone who said something to the effect that if Germany could thank us for stepping in to save the world from the Nazis, now it appears Germany may be returning the favor by saving the world from Bush's America.
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blueimac540c
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by martino balsamico:
<strong>the best war movie i have seen is Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket. it shows how vietnam was pointless and brutal, and how men are dehumanized by war. i think it also tells a great story of how killing and fighting can be terribly attractive.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
i agree on the full metal jacket. and on the eve of another war (although our "leaders" say that it's not going to happen cause they are patient) it seems the government has forgotten everything... well... everything sane. It's a war for money, not for the right thing. And we'll all find out how the "troops" come back from this one...
<strong>the best war movie i have seen is Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket. it shows how vietnam was pointless and brutal, and how men are dehumanized by war. i think it also tells a great story of how killing and fighting can be terribly attractive.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
i agree on the full metal jacket. and on the eve of another war (although our "leaders" say that it's not going to happen cause they are patient) it seems the government has forgotten everything... well... everything sane. It's a war for money, not for the right thing. And we'll all find out how the "troops" come back from this one...
no War for Oil
Bush doesn't have a chance in 2004 unless maybe the Dems run Lieberman against him.
They can't be that daft, can they?
Oh you just wait!
They can't be that daft, can they?
Oh you just wait!
no War for Oil
You guys are cracking me up. Daft dems? Yeah, they could, but I don't think they will. I confess I like Pelosi too much, although I understand she's not running. Anyway the point is, we're gonna get out of this mess, people. In '04 he's no more.
That's what I want, a placard that reads: "Oh Four No More"
He's committing political suicide and he doesn't even know it.
That's what I want, a placard that reads: "Oh Four No More"
He's committing political suicide and he doesn't even know it.
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mccutcheon
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no War for Oil
Don't you guys think the war is going to help him just like it did his daddy? From lowest ranking pres to the top. he is juust following that lead.
no War for Oil
Yeah when college boys get shot its a national tragedy.
When poor people in the 'hood get shot by the same people its "what those crazy people deserve."
Free Mumia!
When poor people in the 'hood get shot by the same people its "what those crazy people deserve."
Free Mumia!