My New Perfume
- TragicPixie
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Sarah, I have to agree with mark that the comment was offensive; and though I am sensative to such comments because they are the kind of flippant comments the rest of my family makes not *quite* grasping the gravity of the situation (as none of the women ever actually completed a college degree, they merely got an MRS degree about two years in... and although they may have had jobs most certainly were NOT expected to even attempt to supprt themselves in any way) I didn't really want to get into the debate.
I agree that you have to come from a position of relative security to make that statement. I am not saying it's something bad, and I admire your husband but I still think you have to be in a generally secure situtation to be able to even have the menatlity to make that choice.
And I disagree with knowing people in serious dire poevrty makes you necessarily more knowledgeable: because we are all products of our environment and would not really be able to fully know what's like to have absolutely NO security ever.
I think it's safe to say *everyone* on this board has known security ... and finances are not the only thing involved in this, but without some degree of privelage than we cannot have security much past the age of 2-3 if that; as if you are an infant and your family doesn't eat enough for your mother to produce enough milk or feed you in general - you aren't experiencing security - even marky.
While I do appreciate your concern/care, I do find your first advice and the thought process behind it a little offensive. Then again, I am not terribly offended I'm used to it and think it's something that our society should work on more. While I freely admit I could be reading it wrong; I think that only proves my own background of privelege.
I also find it difficult to believe you are not in a position of privelge, since you did just take mission-style trip (which while I think are often times, tho' not always helpful) are really something on those of us with certain societal privelleges and security can do.
And if you'd still like I can scan the artile for your by Linda Alcoff; I am keeping the book and own a copy machine. You may enjoy it, she talks about this sort of problem a lot and how feminists especially need to avoid it (as historically in the past feminism has been viewed as a white middle to upper class phenomena and much theory still reflects this - even when the subject is soemthing like women in India.)
I agree that you have to come from a position of relative security to make that statement. I am not saying it's something bad, and I admire your husband but I still think you have to be in a generally secure situtation to be able to even have the menatlity to make that choice.
And I disagree with knowing people in serious dire poevrty makes you necessarily more knowledgeable: because we are all products of our environment and would not really be able to fully know what's like to have absolutely NO security ever.
I think it's safe to say *everyone* on this board has known security ... and finances are not the only thing involved in this, but without some degree of privelage than we cannot have security much past the age of 2-3 if that; as if you are an infant and your family doesn't eat enough for your mother to produce enough milk or feed you in general - you aren't experiencing security - even marky.
While I do appreciate your concern/care, I do find your first advice and the thought process behind it a little offensive. Then again, I am not terribly offended I'm used to it and think it's something that our society should work on more. While I freely admit I could be reading it wrong; I think that only proves my own background of privelege.
I also find it difficult to believe you are not in a position of privelge, since you did just take mission-style trip (which while I think are often times, tho' not always helpful) are really something on those of us with certain societal privelleges and security can do.
And if you'd still like I can scan the artile for your by Linda Alcoff; I am keeping the book and own a copy machine. You may enjoy it, she talks about this sort of problem a lot and how feminists especially need to avoid it (as historically in the past feminism has been viewed as a white middle to upper class phenomena and much theory still reflects this - even when the subject is soemthing like women in India.)
Lie to me, it takes less time to drink you pretty.
- TragicPixie
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And as I remember from my reading of Affluenza...
Yes the point was material wealth beyond a point is stupid and friviolous - but really, that does not deny it's importance. To deny the importance of reaching that pivital point which I think is about $30,000 to be able to pay rent, and buy about $100 of food a month as well as have some kind of healthcare; you're right. It doesn't matter how much more money you have - even IF you just have $10 a month to spend.
But I will say that that is NOT J's currant situation. And that's really neither here nor there but as an example of how important money actually is; up to a point; J is diabetic. He is too poor to get healthcare and being a student (and having only comp sci job skills and there being a very poor job market in St. Louis) he is prevented from being able to get a full time job that might provide healthcare (which he would also really hate and would exagerate his diabetes realated depression: insulin is related to seretonian production/reception) and too young to get state provided healthcare at 24. Missouri covers the under 18 and I believe over 65 - not in between.
The insulin he is supposed to be on costs $80 a bottle. While it is very important to his health, especially considering his kidneys are already halfway to failing because of some problems when he was very young as well as his family's history of heart disease, he gets this particular insulin he certainly can't afford 3-4 bottles of insluin a month at $80. Instead, he is forced to buy 3-4 bottles of a cheaper, generic brand for $30 a month. Not to mention he spends about $100 or so every three months on supplies like syringes and etc. to be able to adminster the insluin to himself every few hours or get supplies for his insulin pump.
Now - he weren't poor then this would not be a problem. If he could at least make enough money to cover rent and have a healthcare plan, it woudl be fine. But being unable to get either this is a problem that shows how money, while arbitray, IS important to one's standard of living.
And I did not mean to use J to get sympathy for him or anything: it's just really I think I'm close enough to him I can talk about his personal situations. Some of my other friends I am not so sure they wouldn't be offended.
Yes the point was material wealth beyond a point is stupid and friviolous - but really, that does not deny it's importance. To deny the importance of reaching that pivital point which I think is about $30,000 to be able to pay rent, and buy about $100 of food a month as well as have some kind of healthcare; you're right. It doesn't matter how much more money you have - even IF you just have $10 a month to spend.
But I will say that that is NOT J's currant situation. And that's really neither here nor there but as an example of how important money actually is; up to a point; J is diabetic. He is too poor to get healthcare and being a student (and having only comp sci job skills and there being a very poor job market in St. Louis) he is prevented from being able to get a full time job that might provide healthcare (which he would also really hate and would exagerate his diabetes realated depression: insulin is related to seretonian production/reception) and too young to get state provided healthcare at 24. Missouri covers the under 18 and I believe over 65 - not in between.
The insulin he is supposed to be on costs $80 a bottle. While it is very important to his health, especially considering his kidneys are already halfway to failing because of some problems when he was very young as well as his family's history of heart disease, he gets this particular insulin he certainly can't afford 3-4 bottles of insluin a month at $80. Instead, he is forced to buy 3-4 bottles of a cheaper, generic brand for $30 a month. Not to mention he spends about $100 or so every three months on supplies like syringes and etc. to be able to adminster the insluin to himself every few hours or get supplies for his insulin pump.
Now - he weren't poor then this would not be a problem. If he could at least make enough money to cover rent and have a healthcare plan, it woudl be fine. But being unable to get either this is a problem that shows how money, while arbitray, IS important to one's standard of living.
And I did not mean to use J to get sympathy for him or anything: it's just really I think I'm close enough to him I can talk about his personal situations. Some of my other friends I am not so sure they wouldn't be offended.
Lie to me, it takes less time to drink you pretty.
- TragicPixie
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- Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:19 am
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on the job he would hate issue: the only full time work that J could get in STL beyond customer service jobs; which do not usually have any benefits, would be a factory job. while it woudl have benefits woudl exagerate existing health problems... not to mention now that I think about he's kind of a weak scrawny guy. I don't know what he'd do in a factory environment
Lie to me, it takes less time to drink you pretty.
Just kindof an aside here - are you guys planning to move away from STL? Well I guess you can't if you're in school. But afterwards? I'm always struck by just how "out in the wilderness" you seem out there "in the midwest" even though STL is a well known city. I can sortof relate, but then I sortof can't, because you regularly make 5-6 hour drives to other places, which I never had to do growing up.
Also I'd like to add without dredging up the Martin Hannett thread that the French record shop did come through after all. I thought I would have to demand my money back, that the LP would never arrive and they'd fucked me over. But they didn't. Except that the vinyl quality is really terrible. And it skips on one song that I'd really like to hear in full. It's this diva called Armande Altai. She looks like a goth on the sleeve, sortof. Lots of makeup. Anyway I can't complain about the quality of the vinyl, I should just be glad I managed to get a copy because it is quite rare, I understand. It does list Martin Hannett in the credits, and it says it has Steve Hopkins on piano/keyboards, which was Hannett's musical partner for the Invisible Girls stuff you hear on John Cooper Clarke records. Some of it is trite crap, but some is nice, too. I found myself at times thinking "she's like Kate Bush but...not quite...but still like Kate Bush a little at times..."
All the lyrics are in French.
I will say this, it doesn't really sound much like a Hannett production. I wonder if by 1983 he was so into heroin that he just took this album on for the money. He disappeared for like 5 years after that, not to return until Happy Mondays' Bummed and that.
All the lyrics are in French.
I will say this, it doesn't really sound much like a Hannett production. I wonder if by 1983 he was so into heroin that he just took this album on for the money. He disappeared for like 5 years after that, not to return until Happy Mondays' Bummed and that.
Actually there is one song on here I like a lot. If I turn it up loud enough I don't notice the bad vinyl quality. And I take it back that it doesn't seem like a Hannett production. It still has his stamp on it, but it's just not like earlier things probably mostly because this is 1983 and the landscape of post punk is about to change for the worse.
It's the same guy on piano as the John Cooper Clarke stuff. I wonder if I can train the needle not to skip on this song. I used to do that sometimes with records in my youth. You hold the stylus against the groove, toward the outer edge, not down but towards you. If you do this sometimes, really gently, while it's playing where a skip was, you can carve out a new groove so that it doesn't skip anymore! It takes a steady hand though. Which I might not have right now. Thankfully it doesn't skip so much that you can't enjoy the song, which is beautiful. He makes the piano echo in a big room and she's singing over it, sadly.
Okay I promise I'll shut up about Martin Hannett now.
It's the same guy on piano as the John Cooper Clarke stuff. I wonder if I can train the needle not to skip on this song. I used to do that sometimes with records in my youth. You hold the stylus against the groove, toward the outer edge, not down but towards you. If you do this sometimes, really gently, while it's playing where a skip was, you can carve out a new groove so that it doesn't skip anymore! It takes a steady hand though. Which I might not have right now. Thankfully it doesn't skip so much that you can't enjoy the song, which is beautiful. He makes the piano echo in a big room and she's singing over it, sadly.
Okay I promise I'll shut up about Martin Hannett now.
- TragicPixie
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- Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:19 am
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Yes.I have never been to Saint Louis. I probably passed it a few times when I was driving somewhere interesting though.
Isn't it in Missouri or something?
Don't they have a giant arch?
Can't we hang James Blunt from it and then blow it up?
Yes - it's hideous.
And YES please.
Also - yeah, we do plan on moving soon after my graduation; we haven't really decided where. We are looking that Pacific Northwest - though we do have a pretty decent amount of friends in the east coast area and quite a few connections.
But really, within five years of our graduation we both need to get back in grad school. I am looking at New School in manhatten and he's thinking about university of Toronto.
So really it'll just come down to how things work out.
Lie to me, it takes less time to drink you pretty.
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- Old Skool Pax
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