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by megapulse
Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:18 am
Forum: Pax Acidus World News
Topic: for clinton fans who miss him
Replies: 13
Views: 5015

no, he can't. no one can "save" anyone from terrorists -- these are people who think that it is an honor to the power that created life to take life, including their own lives -- how can you save someone from that? i don't think democrats are saviors . . .by any means. with the current elections, i ...
by megapulse
Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:10 am
Forum: Pax Acidus World News
Topic: for clinton fans who miss him
Replies: 13
Views: 5015

Mark, I'm sorry this freaks you out. I don't mean to freak anyone out. Sometimes I guess I forget that other people have not been living with military/former military -- the hubby knew about bin laden b/c of the cole, a ship, he was in the navy

What I found impressive was Clinton's refusal to allow Wallace to ask a question and then move on without getting the very lengthy response that was required in order to fully explain himself -- he did not cater to a television audience. He off the cuff explained more than most of us could explain about events that happened last week, and he was explaining something that happened years ago. Also he got pissed and showed real human emotion without getting distracted by his emotion -- on television which democrats have been afraid to do since howard dean was ridiculously accused of being crazy for getting excited.

He explained that he knew who bin laden was b/c bin laden was responsible for the cole -- the entire united states knew about the cole, the entire united states and especially our media who gave it no more attention than a blip cared b/c it was military personnel who are supposed to die, you know it's their job and all, who were killed . . . So anybody want to blame anyone? Blame your fucking selves for not caring about the lives of those people who were killed . . . Blame yourself for not caring about them simply because of what they got paid to do - - all of america could have demanded that more been done about bin laden and the cole-- it was not a secret. And i'm certain that these morons who are po'ed at clinton for "not doing enough" about Bin Laden did not give a tin shit about the cole getting bombed. No one including Wallace and whoever paid his check cared enough to make it a sensational story then.

So what Clinton said about bin lad was, I tried to stop him and was not given permission to stop him:

“But we needed baseing rights in Uzbekistan which we got after 9/11. The CIA and the FBI refused to certify that Bin Laden was responsible while I was there. They refused to certify. So that meant I would have had to send a few hundred special forces in helicopters and refuel at night. . . The entire military was against sending special forces in to Afghanistan and refueling by helicopter and no one thought we could do it otherwise…We could not get the CIA and the FBI to certify that Al Qaeda was responsible while I was President. Until I left office.â€￾

He also pointed out that Wallace and Fox News use card stacking in their reporting, which is completely biased and not news -- it's crap -- notice mike Wallace never answers the Clinton's question he evades it like . . . a politician -- it is so funny this part, because Clinton has reversed their roles, he is now interviewing Wallace and Wallace is a liar:


“CLINTON: It was a perfectly legitimate question but I want to know how many people in the Bush administration you asked this question of. I want to know how many people in the Bush administration you asked why didn't you do anything about the Cole. I want to know how many you asked why did you fire Dick Clarke. I want to know…

WALLACE: We asked..

CLINTON:..

WALLACE: Do you ever watch Fox News Sunday sir?

CLINTON: I don't believe you ask them that.

WALLACE: We ask plenty of questions of…

CLINTON: You didn't ask that did you? Tell the truth

WALLACE: About the USS Cole?

CLINTON: tell the truth.

WALLACE: I…with Iraq and Afghanistan there's plenty of stuff to ask.


CLINTON: Did you ever ask that? You set this meeting up because you were going to get a lot of criticism from your viewers because Rupert Murdoch is going to get a lot of criticism from your viewers for supporting my work on Climate Change. And you came here under false pretenses and said that you'd spend half the time talking about…

WALLACE: [laughs]â€￾

i don't support war and i don't support what clinton did, which makes it almost ironic that i do applaud the way that he explained the truth about what happened. i do respect his intelligence, his composure, his passion, and his willingness to comply and to listen to those who were supposed to know more than he about intel . . .all things that george bush lacks.
by megapulse
Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:43 pm
Forum: Pax Acidus World News
Topic: for clinton fans who miss him
Replies: 13
Views: 5015

for clinton fans who miss him

i'm not much of one, but i think this is actually great.

i subtitle it a smart man hands a dumb man his ass, which is what usually happens when a dumbass stereotype / rumor mongerer talks to someone who knows the facts:

WALLACE: When we announced that you were going to be on fox news Sunday, I got a lot of email from viewers, and I got to say I was surprised most of them wanted me to ask you this question. Why didn't you do more to put Bin Laden and al Qaeda out of business when you were President. There's a new book out which I suspect you've read called the Looming Tower. And it talks about how the fact that when you pulled troops out of Somalia in 1993, Bin Laden said I have seen the frailty and the weakness and the cowardice of US troops. Then there was the bombing of the embassies in Africa and the attack on the USS Cole.

CLINTON: OK..

WALLACE: …may I just finish the question sir. And after the attack, the book says, Bin Laden separated his leaders because he expected an attack and there was no response. I understand that hindsight is 20 20.

CLINTON: No let's talk about…

WALLACE: …but the question is why didn't you do more, connect the dots and put them out of business?

CLINTON: OK, let's talk about it. I will answer all of those things on the merits but I want to talk about the context of which this…arises. I'm being asked this on the FOX network…ABC just had a right wing conservative on the Path to 9/11 falsely claim that it was based on the 911 commission report with three things asserted against me that are directly contradicted by the 9/11 commission report. I think it's very interesting that all the conservative Republicans who now say that I didn't do enough, claimed that I was obsessed with Bin Laden. All of President Bush's neocons claimed that I was too obsessed with finding Bin Laden when they didn't have a single meeting about Bin Laden for the nine months after I left office. All the right wingers who now say that I didn't do enough said that I did too much. Same people.

They were all trying to get me to withdraw from Somalia in 1993 the next day after we were involved in black hawk down and I refused to do it and stayed 6 months and had an orderly transfer to the UN.

Ok, now let's look at all the criticisms: Black hawk down, Somalia. There is not a living soul in the world who thought that Bin laden had anything to do with black hawk down or was paying any attention to it or even knew al Qaeda was a growing concern in October of 1993.

WALLACE: …I understand…

CLINTON: No wait…no wait…Don't tell me. You asked me why I didn't do more to Bin Laden. There was not a living soul…all the people who criticized me wanted to leave the next day. You brought this up so you get an answer.

WALLACE: I'm perfectly happy to. Bin Laden says…

CLINTON: And secondly…

WALLACE: Bin Laden says…

CLINTON: Bin laden may have said that…

WALLACE: Bin Laden says it showed the weakness of the US…

CLINTON: It would have shown the weakness if we left right away but he wasn't involved in that. That's just a bunch of bull. That was about Mohammed Adid, a Muslim war lord murdering..thousands of Pakistani Muslim troops. We were all there on a humanitarian mission. We had not one mission — none — to establish a certain kind of Somali government or to keep anybody out. He was not a religious fanatic.

WALLACE: But Mr. President…

CLINTON: There was no Al Qaeda…

WALLACE: …with respect if I may. Instead of going through 93.

CLINTON: You asked you. It you brought it up.

WALLACE: May I ask a general question that you can answer. The 9/11 Commission, which you talk about, and this is what they did say, not what ABC pretended they said…

CLINTON: Wait, Wait…

WALLACE: …they said about you and 43 and I quote, “The US government took the threat seriously, not in the sense of mustering anything like that would be….to confront an enemy of the first, second or third rankâ€￾

CLINTON: That's not true with us and Bin Laden…

WALLACE: …the 9/11 commission says…

CLINTON: Let's look at what Richard Clarke says. You think Richard Clarke has a vigorous attitude about Bin Laden?

WALLACE: Yes I do

CLINTON: You do?

WALLACE: I think he has a variety of opinions and loyalties but yes.

CLINTON: He has a variety of opinion and loyalties now but let's look at the facts. He worked for Ronald Regan. He was loyal to him. He worked for George Herbert Walker Bush and he was loyal to him. He worked for me and he was loyal to me. He worked for President Bush; he was loyal to him. They downgraded him and the terrorist operation. Now, look what he said, read his book and read his factual assertions — not opinions, assertions. He said we took vigorous action after the African embassies. We probably nearly got Bin Laden.

WALLACE: …

CLINTON: Now wait a minute…

WALLACE: ..cruise missiles..

CLINTON: I authorized the CIA to get groups together to try to kill him. The CIA was run by George Tenet who President Bush gave the medal of freedom to and said he did a good job.. The country never had a comprehensive anti terror operation until I came to office. If you can criticize me for one thing, you can criticize me for this, after the Cole I had battle plans drawn to go into Afghanistan, overthrow the Taliban, and launch a full scale attack search for Bin Laden. But we needed baseing rights in Uzbekistan which we got after 9/11. The CIA and the FBI refused to certify that Bin Laden was responsible while I was there. They refused to certify. So that meant I would have had to send a few hundred special forces in helicopters and refuel at night. Even the 9/11 Commission didn't do that. Now the 9/11 Commission was a political document too. All I'm asking is if anybody wants to say I didn't do enough, you read Richard Clarke's book.

WALLACE: Do you think you did enough sir?

CLINTON: No, because I didn't get him

WALLACE: Right…

CLINTON: But at least I tried. That's the difference in me and some, including all the right wingers who are attacking me now. They ridiculed me for trying. They had eight months to try and they didn't….. I tired. So I tried and failed. When I failed I left a comprehensive anti-terror strategy and the best guy in the country, Dick Clarke… So you did FOX's bidding on this show. You did you nice little conservative hit job on me. But what I want to know..

WALLACE: Now wait a minute sir…

CLINTON:..

WALLACE: I asked a question. You don't think that's a legitimate question?

CLINTON: It was a perfectly legitimate question but I want to know how many people in the Bush administration you asked this question of. I want to know how many people in the Bush administration you asked why didn't you do anything about the Cole. I want to know how many you asked why did you fire Dick Clarke. I want to know…

WALLACE: We asked..

CLINTON:..

WALLACE: Do you ever watch Fox News Sunday sir?

CLINTON: I don't believe you ask them that.

WALLACE: We ask plenty of questions of…

CLINTON: You didn't ask that did you? Tell the truth

WALLACE: About the USS Cole?

CLINTON: tell the truth.

WALLACE: I…with Iraq and Afghanistan there's plenty of stuff to ask.

CLINTON: Did you ever ask that? You set this meeting up because you were going to get a lot of criticism from your viewers because Rupert Murdoch is going to get a lot of criticism from your viewers for supporting my work on Climate Change. And you came here under false pretenses and said that you'd spend half the time talking about…

WALLACE: [laughs]

CLINTON: You said you'd spend half the time talking about what we did out there to raise $7 billion dollars plus over three days from 215 different commitments. And you don't care.

WALLACE: But President Clinton…

CLINTON:

WALLACE: We were going to ask half the question about it. I didn't think this was going to set you off on such a tear .

CLINTON: It set me off on such a tear because you didn't formulate it in an honest way and you people ask me questions you don't ask the other side.

WALLACE: Sir that is not true…

CLINTON: …and Richard Clarke…

WALLACE: That is not true…

CLINTON: Richard Clarke made it clear in his testimony…

WALLACE: Would you like to talk about the Clinton Global Initiative?

CLINTON: No I want to finish this.

WALLACE: Alright

CLINTON: All I'm saying is you falsely accuse me of giving aid and comfort to Bin Laden because of what happened in Somalia. No one knew al Qaeda existed then…

WALLACE: Did they know in 1996 when he declared war on the US? Did no one know in 1998…

CLINTON: Absolutely they did

WALLACE: When they bombed the two embassies…

CLINTON:…

WALLACE: Or in 2000 when they hit the Cole.

CLINTON: What did I do? I worked hard to try and kill him. I authorized a finding for the CIA to kill him. We contracted with people to kill him. I got closer to killing him than anybody has gotten since. And if I were still president we'd have more than 20,000 troops there trying to kill him. Now I never criticized President Bush and I don't think this is useful. But you know we do have a government that think Afghanistan is 1/7 as important as Iraq. And you ask me about terror and Al Qaeda with that sort of dismissive theme when all you have to do is read Richard Clarke's book to look at what we did in a comprehensive systematic way to try to protect the country against terror. And you've got that little smirk on your face. It looks like you're so clever…

WALLACE: [Laughs]

CLINTON: I had responsibility for trying to protect this country. I tried and I failed to get bin laden. I regret it but I did try. And I did everything I thought I responsibly could. The entire military was against sending special forces in to Afghanistan and refueling by helicopter and no one thought we could do it otherwise…We could not get the CIA and the FBI to certify that Al Qaeda was responsible while I was President. Until I left office. And yet I get asked about this all the time and they had three times as much time to get him as I did and no one ever asks them about this. I think that's strange.

WALLACE: Can I ask you about the Clinton Global Initiative?

CLINTON: You can.

WALLACE: I always intended to sir.

CLINTON: No you intended to move your bones by doing this first. But I don't mind people asking me. I actually talked o the 9/11 commission for four hours and I told them the mistakes I thought I made. And I urged them to make those mistakes public because I thought none of us had been perfect. But instead of anybody talking about those things. I always get these clever little political…where they ask me one sided questions… It always comes from one source. And so…

WALLACE:…

CLINTON: And so…

WALLACE: I just want to ask you about the Clinton Global Initiative but what's the source? You seem upset?

CLINTON: I am upset because..

WALLACE: …and all I can say is I'm asking you in good faith because it's on people's minds sir. And I wasn't…




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#2 09-22-2006, 07:04 PM
WMA
Dissident Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: MA
Posts: 422

The rest:


Quote:
CLINTON: There's a reason it's on people's minds. That's the point I'm trying to make. There's a reason it's on people's minds because they've done a serious disinformation campaign to create that impression. This country only has one person who has worked…against terror…under Regan…only one, Richard Clarke. And all I'd say anybody who wonders whether we did wrong or right. Anybody who wants to see what everybody else did, read his book. The people on my political right who say I didn't do enough spent the whole time I was president saying why is he so obsessed with Bin Laden. And that was wag the dog when he tried to kill him. My Republican sec of defense — and I think I'm the only person since World War II to have a Secretary of Defense from the opposite party — Richard Clarke, and all the intelligence people said that I ordered a vigorous attempt to get Osama Bin Laden and came closer apparently than anybody has since.

WALLACE: alright…

CLINTON: And you guys try to create the opposite impression when all you have to do is read Richard Clarke's findings and you know it's not true. It's just not true. And all this business about Somalia — the same people who criticized me about Somalia were demanding I leave the next day. Same exact crowd..

clinton was not really a peaceful president. the hubby had seen rhw pictures of bin laden, the ones that are the news now, even told me about him before bush ever got into office. . . but clinton at least was and is not a dumbass.
by megapulse
Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:04 pm
Forum: Travel Stories
Topic: honderus
Replies: 33
Views: 13600

looking back at the old post is funny. it is really funny b/c i wasn't sick, i was pregnant. the pictures that i couldn't open of adams are now going to be on exhibit at this old remodeled theatre in town. it's tonight -- he's giving the money to the theatre and the foundation that supports the hond...
by megapulse
Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:49 pm
Forum: Pax Acidus World News
Topic: Go Willie!
Replies: 5
Views: 3017

precisely! you're so smart. i can tell you all the research that links low literacy rates to low socioeconomic status to high rates of incarceration . . . you would not be surprised. trade books are sort of like what mark mentioned about a library inside of a classroom when he was in school. it's re...
by megapulse
Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:26 am
Forum: Pax Acidus World News
Topic: Go Willie!
Replies: 5
Views: 3017

willie nelson should be fueling the bus -- biodiesel. :) anybody want to write a grant proposal for environmental tradebooks for kids in a title one school? i'm actually wondering if willie has a foundation for this. i think jimmy cheeseburger in paradise might . . . anyone want to do the research f...
by megapulse
Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:51 pm
Forum: Pax Acidus World News
Topic: Pax Space
Replies: 63
Views: 21797

pixie . . . drunk posts are interesting; especially when terrible mistakes are made. for god sakes don't edit. then it is no longer funny. mark, the colin powell thing. and i have to say the hubby's memory is right on . . . unbelievable. he almost told me this word for word before i googled it: May ...
by megapulse
Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:59 pm
Forum: Pax Acidus World News
Topic: Pax Space
Replies: 63
Views: 21797

"Also you might be amused to learn that my new job turned out to be at a non-profit that helps seniors, can you believe it?" oh! i love it!! that's so great. if i were in the room with you i would give you a big fat hug and a smooch!! and i'd buy you a drink or ten of your choice -- and write it off...
by megapulse
Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:40 pm
Forum: Pax Acidus World News
Topic: Pax Space
Replies: 63
Views: 21797

i think we just remember what we're interested in. that's a theory, not a fact. so powell. i wish the hubby was here today; he's not he's at the fire station. he saw a few years ago what appeared to be a colin caught on camera moment (like bush making blair talk to the back of his head about israel ...
by megapulse
Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:37 am
Forum: Pax Acidus World News
Topic: Pax Space
Replies: 63
Views: 21797

For the record, maverick's response to war, should we have done it or not?

“As for my "being for the war from the beginning", that is untrue. If you will look back, I said clearly that I did not agree with the manner in which the american (Bush) government was ignoring the advice and opinions of our allies . . . Do I wish that Bush had listened to other leaders, formed a stronger coalition, and pursued terrorists on other fronts, perhaps eventually including Iraq, yes.â€￾

So he never answered the question DIRECTLY -- I tried to point out to him and anyone else who was unclear about it that pursuing terrorists on other fronts and eventually Iraq is what we did when we went from pursuing terrorists in Afghanistan to eventually pursuing them in IRAQ, AND MOST PEOPLE HAVE CALLED THAT WAR

I'M NOT TRYING TO FIGHT WITH YOU EITHER MAVERICK, BUT GET OFF THE FENCE, WAR OR NO WAR

WHAT SAYS YOU?
by megapulse
Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:48 pm
Forum: Pax Acidus World News
Topic: Pax Space
Replies: 63
Views: 21797

i don't understand this new fancy stuff, but thanks sloth. mark, where the hell were you in the post you started about peace when i went on and on about maverick's position on war, you remember? he tried to explain that no, he was not for this war from the beginning that he is and was for the use of...
by megapulse
Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:17 pm
Forum: Pax Acidus World News
Topic: 9-11, peace on earth present
Replies: 0
Views: 2973

9-11, peace on earth present

i thought some folks here might like to read this article, and i thought it might be timely for americans with what will be in the newspapers today and tomorrow. i got it last year for christmas . . . http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/27/AR2005122700732.html Peace on Earth...
by megapulse
Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:38 pm
Forum: Sex, Drugs, & Rock n' Roll
Topic: mc your flaming lips reference is perfect!!
Replies: 0
Views: 2856

mc your flaming lips reference is perfect!!

we saw our son's face today, just a few hours ago we had our three-d ultrasound. it was amazing and that song is perfect. it's in my cd case; now it's going to be on the dvd i burn of him in utero. that's awesome . . . thanks. :) sex is how we got the baby, the baby is always on topic in this forum ...
by megapulse
Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:20 pm
Forum: Quotes
Topic: Bill Vaughan
Replies: 2
Views: 546

hey go see why i hate NoVA. that's weird i was just posting about suburbia in the pax space thread.
by megapulse
Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:17 pm
Forum: Pax Acidus World News
Topic: Pax Space
Replies: 63
Views: 21797

it was bad, but i was a little kid having and then recovering from stomach problems . . . so that might have tainted my perspective. yes, you are right about a nova, i think. but here in virginia NoVA is more like suburban sprawl being born, and then born again, and again and again -- northern virgi...